Quite a slight on our hobby 😡

[danny_galaga]

Oh yeah? I wouldn't get in a helicopter!

 

https://www.insider.com/titanic-sub-stockton-rush-flew-experimental-plane-visit-reluctant-passengers-2023-6?amp

 

"Bloom said he understood that Rush had "a different risk appetite than I do. I'm a pilot, I have my helicopter pilot's license, I wouldn't get into an experimental aircraft," he said."

 

Throwaway statement. Experimental aircraft are tested to accepted practices. This guy clearly was dodgy about his submersible and refused to test it to accepted practices but you can't surmise anything about his sub merely from the fact he flew an experimental aircraft.

 

Wonder what he flew?

 

Edit: he flew a Glasair 3

Edited June 30, 2023 by danny_galaga

[Area-51]

The engine stopped; Aaaaaaaghhhhh..... we're all gona die!!!!!!! 😱😱😱😱 😂😂😂

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm not that keen about helicopters myself but if you get someone who really knows them it's another matter entirely. A Glassair is not a bad thing either. An ultra light can be safe if you do it well as it's very much in your hands IF you are the builder how safe it is. SOME designs that went into manufacture as VH had  some glaring faults and weaknesses.. IF you thump the chipmunk tailwheel down hard enough it will Jamb the elevator FULL up. The Fairy-Reed props also developed hub cracks and threw Blades and ran without spinners for a while  so they could be inspected easily. Nev

[Thruster88]

I am sure mr Rush would have done the sums and known there wass about 7400 tons pushing the titanium domes together at that depth.  

[onetrack]

I don't reckon Mr Rush passed basic high school maths - but he certainly displayed a premium level of arrogance.

 

Sub "safety" was over-the-top BS, according to him. He was well named. In a big Rush to get to the bottom of the ocean, fast - which he did.

 

 

[facthunter]

Well He clearly didn't get the sums right did he? I think it was built like that to POP up to the surface if something went wrong.. Boeings SST project w as cancelled when the Alloys chosen didn't achieve what the Plane required.  That was after a heap of dough had been invested in the project.. The DH Comet failed at the squared corners of the windows at about 6000 thousand hours of flight time. . This is companies with a lot of know how and resources.. Nev

[danny_galaga]

14 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Well He clearly didn't get the sums right did he? I think it was built like that to POP up to the surface if something went wrong.. Boeings SST project w as cancelled when the Alloys chosen didn't achieve what the Plane required.  That was after a heap of dough had been invested in the project.. The DH Comet failed at the squared corners of the windows at about 6000 thousand hours of flight time. . This is companies with a lot of know how and resources.. Nev

But they did all the testing they could at the time. This guy spent hardly any money on it, AND charged people to be test pilots with them. 

 

Anyway, my point still stands that Bloom was right to be wary of him, but wrong to assume anything about Rush flying an experimental plane 

[facthunter]

They put strain gauges on parts of aeroplanes to check whether their assumptions in the design Phase were correct. Boeing underestimated the Loads on the tail of the B727 by a factor of NINE.   Nev

[onetrack]

There certainly is no comparison between Rush's submersible, that he apparently largely designed - to the Glasair III, that he built - because the submersible was something he designed from scratch, without independent engineering oversight - whereas the Glasair III was built by Rush from a professional kit, that was designed by experts, and the Glasair III no doubt had plenty of engineering oversight.

 

Rush was clever in many ways, but simply headstrong, and in a big hurry, and didn't take kindly to anyone slowing up his plans with what he regarded as "safety BS", and what he saw as a hindrance to the speed of his operations.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66014565

[turboplanner]

2 minutes ago, onetrack said:

There certainly is no comparison between Rush's submersible, that he apparently largely designed - to the Glasair III, that he built - because the submersible was something he designed from scratch, without independent engineering oversight - whereas the Glasair III was built by Rush from a professional kit, that was designed by experts, and the Glasair III no doubt had plenty of engineering oversight.

 

Rush was clever in many ways, but simply headstrong, and in a big hurry, and didn't take kindly to anyone slowing up his plans with what he regarded as "safety BS", and what he saw as a hindrance to the speed of his operations.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66014565

The front dome looks as if has come away clean from the body tube. Maybe the early dissimilar construction materials claim was on the money.

We have three fatal bus crashes in Australia  where the victims flew out of their seats and were underneath the bus structure as it came to rest on its side; might be a simliar issue.

[Student Pilot]

The carbon pressure chamber wasn't his idea, Steve Fossett had built one just before he died in an aircraft accident around 2007. Fossett's design was thicker though and I think maybe the fibres were cross hatched? Rush made out it was held together with string and camping gear but it was engineered. He also seemed to foster the idea that he was winging it even though he spent years as an engineer in the aeronautical industry. The sub had been on something like 20 dives before with people commenting on the noises from the carbon fibre. 

Even after being confronted by quite a few people about structural collapse fears he still thought his hull sensors warning system would provide adequate warning.

Didn't.........

 

[Student Pilot]

As it turned out the search for Fossitt was the most expensive ever looking for a person in the US, I wonder what the cost searching for the sub cost? looking for billionaires is an expensive business. As a comparison there have been 17 deaths on Everest this year, I wonder how much was spend helping those folk out?  

[Area-51]

7 minutes ago, Student Pilot said:

As it turned out the search for Fossitt was the most expensive ever looking for a person in the US, I wonder what the cost searching for the sub cost? looking for billionaires is an expensive business. As a comparison there have been 17 deaths on Everest this year, I wonder how much was spend helping those folk out?  

Most bodies of dead climbers are left frozen on Everest.

 

There appears to be a certain death connection between aviators that go deep diving in the opposite direction?

[facthunter]

Both extremes of the Hostile part of the world environment.  Survival there is complex and difficult and rescue uncertain.  It's attractive to people who seek such excitement and costly which is a limiting factor for most of us. Rich people get bored.  The normal things in life are easy for them. Nev

[Marty_d]

What about the hundreds that lost their lives on a refugee boat at the same time this was happening? Did the wealthy countries spend any money on them while spending millions looking for 5 men?

[facthunter]

You are right and many have pointed it out. It's NOT NEWS though and it's about MONEY.  Nev

[turboplanner]

24 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

What about the hundreds that lost their lives on a refugee boat at the same time this was happening? Did the wealthy countries spend any money on them while spending millions looking for 5 men?

No

[Garfly]

On the other hand, the whole world got behind the Thai soccer lads in the cave.

(Heck, even Elon wanted to help by having SpaceX design a rescue-sub, before he was (appropriately) told to butt out.)

 

And this paper from the European Parliament puts a bit of meat on the bone regarding the Mediterranean tragedies.

 

EPRS_BRI(2022)733712_EN.pdf

 

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Garfly

[Student Pilot]

4 hours ago, Marty_d said:

What about the hundreds that lost their lives on a refugee boat at the same time this was happening? Did the wealthy countries spend any money on them while spending millions looking for 5 men?

Reading about that the Greek navy were trying to take the boat in tow, they were sent away at least once. When they tried to get a tow rope on the trawler the folks on there were calling out "Go to Italy" they didn't want the Greek boat to take them in tow. When connected and starting to tow the boat overturned. 
 

While not being in the same category as the Titan crew it's been said the 700ish on board bayed between 6 to 8 thousand US dollars each for a spot on the trawler. That is big money, clearly they were not camp refugees with the arse out of their trousers living from bins on the side of the road and begging. Any sea travel is dangerous especially on shitty old non seaworthy boats, they would have known the risks. In this area there has been constant talk of the flow of people and the danger they face. The reward they think is worth the risk, would you sit in a 5 man rubber inflatable (not the trawler quoted) with 20 other people with 6" of freeboard trying to cross 100nm mile of open water?

[onetrack]

The simple problem is - refugees rocking up to a country are effectively "queue jumpers", intent on defeating a countrys immigration laws and restrictions. Many of these people come from exceptionally violent, lawless, and murderous societies, with cultures that are diametrically opposed to the countries they have decided they will live in.

 

But every country has major restrictions on who they will accept as immigrants, have to examine how well the immigrant may fit in to their society, and have to examine whether the potential immigrant is of good character or not.

A criminal record will soon see you rejected from even visiting many countries - and if the immigrant has a destroyed criminal record in the country that they came from, then the Immigration authorities have to try and track down any history of criminality of the would-be immigrants.

 

So, not such an easy problem to fix, coming across refugee boats. Then there's the problem of lawless countries arranging for all their troublemakers to become "refugees". Good way to unload your problem onto another country.

France is paying the price now for largely unfettered immigration from countries and cultures that are diametrically opposed to Frances resident and predominantly Christian culture.

 

Yes, the French police are being heavy handed, but they are increasingly facing more and more lawless, criminally-minded immigrants, who have no intention of obeying any French laws or French police orders.

The level of looting in France at present is appalling, these lawless immigrants are just animals. The immigrants of the ghetto Banlieues are treated like second-class citizens, because they behave like them.

The biggest single problem is that Islamics do not believe any man-made laws have to be obeyed - only Allahs Laws - and the local Imam is their combined religious and political power, usurping power from the elected Govt and the Police.

[turboplanner]

36 minutes ago, onetrack said:

The simple problem is - refugees rocking up to a country are effectively "queue jumpers", intent on defeating a countrys immigration laws and restrictions. Many of these people come from exceptionally violent, lawless, and murderous societies, with cultures that are diametrically opposed to the countries they have decided they will live in.

I was cajoled into taking pity on refugees to Australia so when a refugee meeting to discuss the appalling treatment of our refugees was advertised I went along. OUr local Council had picked up the tab for the meeting venue in the large Council Chambers.

 

So as not to cause offence to the poor refugees, I dressed in old boots, old jeans, old T shirt and old jumper.

 

The first I realised something was wrong was when I couldn't find a park; it was going to be a big meeting. That wasn't the problem; I'd never seen such a collection of Audis, Benzs and other upmarket cars in one place before.

 

I needn't have bothered about the dress; when I got inside I was surrounded by Armani suits and every luxury brand you could think of.

 

The Convenors all seemed to be immigration lawyers.

 

The first speaker was a prominent barrister, well known in the media around Australia, and he led with "The first thing we have to do is get rid of this Government!"  This looked pretty close to Sedition to me which around the 12th Century would be punished by hanging, drawing and quartering. In William Wallace's case when all he asked for was "Freedom" a quarter of his body was nailed up in the four towns doing to most stirring. Today the penalty in Australia is only 7 years.

 

As each person stood up and outlined his her diffculties - needing a house or a car to get around in they were allocated to one of the Convenors for help. For a while I was tempted to stand up and say I needed a Jaburu J230 to enable me to muster the sheep but by that time the meeting had broken up into focus groups and I had been artfully cut out from the groups as an Australian.

 

You of course would have been paying for all these wishes to come true.

 

[derekliston]

On 30/6/2023 at 6:00 PM, facthunter said:

Well He clearly didn't get the sums right did he? I think it was built like that to POP up to the surface if something went wrong.. Boeings SST project w as cancelled when the Alloys chosen didn't achieve what the Plane required.  That was after a heap of dough had been invested in the project.. The DH Comet failed at the squared corners of the windows at about 6000 thousand hours of flight time. . This is companies with a lot of know how and resources.. Nev

Nev, according to a YouTube video that I watched recently the square window story is a commonly accepted fallacy and the cracks in fact propagated from some cutouts on the fuselage top. I think they said it was some sort of antenna mount? I really don’t know, but it was a well put together documentary and well worth a look!

[facthunter]

 It was tested in a tank underwater with the pressure applied inside to water, and the rest stressed till it failed. The info was provided free to all other builders and I doubt its BS. The aviation network would be officially advised of such findings. No pressurised airliner has squared off windows and Boeing applied  stress limiting strips so cracks would only go so far. .  Nev

[derekliston]

2 minutes ago, facthunter said:

 It was tested in a tank underwater with the pressure applied inside to water, and the rest stressed till it failed. The info was provided free to all other builders and I doubt its BS. The aviation network would be officially advised of such findings. No pressurised airliner has squared off windows and Boeing applied  stress limiting strips so cracks would only go so far. .  Nev

Like I said, I don’t know but if you can find that on YouTube it is worth a look!

[onetrack]

The DH Comet cracks originated from the corners of the forward port cabin window and then extended to the forward port window. I believe cracking was also found around the ADF aerial cutouts and poor riveting techniques were also blamed.

Regardless, pressurisation cycles and metal fatigue were not well understood, when the Comet was being designed - the tests led to a major rethink of the Comet design, and increased knowledge about pressure cycling effects and metal fatigue.

 

http://www.dh-aircraft.co.uk/aircraft/dh106/comet1/inquiry/

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=DH+Comet+testing+tank&sxsrf=AB5stBjirTwRgWLzVFyVZqBoki1XDfNXiQ%3A1688212731489

 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by onetrack