Zongshen cd 100 /912 clone

[danny_galaga]

The upshot is Australia is too stupid to make things we can sell 😁

[spenaroo]

Pontiac was already on its last legs, when they added the G8.
and they never really advertised the SS when it had Chevy badges... confusing the American's as traditionally SS was a trim level.
Be like Toyota releasing the next Camry as the GLX

Edited July 17, 2023 by spenaroo

[facthunter]

The centre(S) of control in the US  DETROIT,are too centralised. HSV and Ford equivalent did great work. I believe GM organised their bankruptcy to remove the burden of payments like long service leave and holiday pay owed,  from the books.  Nev

[facthunter]

I happen to know a  high up person from Holden who had a lot to do with that particular motor. at  the time. V6's are hard to balance well and a few broke crankshafts earlier on.. There's plenty more to state but it's not worth  it. Too tribal.   Nev

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, spenaroo said:

I think half the issue was also that the American owners were protective of their own markets.
and didn't want to bring the Australian cars in to compete with their own offerings.

I'm not sure about Ford or Chrysler, but in GM the divisions fought it out ferociously for the last dollar profit, so if there was a carline somewhere it's products were bought. The usuall killer was low volume in the home country. I went to the US in the late 1970s and walked into a company with an Australian product. We settle on a price and the buyer said I'll make that the lead product for spring, I've got 1,000 shops so I need to have 150,000 delivered within 3 months. We couldn't even get the tooling done by then. The second killer is critical mass for pricing and it's near impossible for the small countries to be able to achieve a competitive retail price even though the product would be badged GM.

However there were always chinks. Holden sold the VF Commodore to GM Chevrolet and they badged it Chevrolet SS, and ran it in NASCAR racing for about 4 years, but US drivers didn't need the winding/rough road handling, so the numbers couldn't save Holden.

I really felt for the car guys, they had to make decisions so far ahead without existing data to go on. No matter what Toyota did, they couldn't get a leg in the Commodore market and no matter what Holden did it couldn't sell Holden cars against Toyota's four cylinder models, so they reached an agreement; Holden would buy Toyota's successful four cylinder models and rebadge them in return for Toyota buying Commodore, which they rebadged Lexcen, coinciding with the release of the VN. It was a marketing disaster Holden's four cylinder market share stayed in the forgettable range, and in one NSW town the Holden dealer was selling Commodores above retail price and had an order backlog of months while the Toyota Dealer actually offered his unsaleable Lexcen to the Holden dealer.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

I happen to know a  high up person from Holden who had a lot to do with that particular motor. at  the time. V6's are hard to balance well and a few broke crankshafts earlier on.. There's plenty more to state but it's not worth  it. Too tribal.   Nev

High Up? sounds more like the tea lady to me.

GM build 25 million 3800 engines world wide.

Holden built 1.1 million in Australia, 700,000 for Australia.

[facthunter]

Pathetic. Turbs   We  were talking about the US derived V6 & I don't make stuff up.  Nev

[turboplanner]

Just now, facthunter said:

Pathetic. Turbs   We  were talking about the US derived V6 & I don't make stuff up.  Nev

The figures are the US derived V6.  

[facthunter]

Why the tea Lady Comment?

[spacesailor]

Australian Designed Disaster  ! .

The   ' P 76 '  that would load a 44 gallon drum into the boot, " for the farmers " .

Anyone tried to lift that drum out ( of the boot ) with your fingers. 

spacesailor

[spenaroo]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

Australian Designed Disaster  ! .

The   ' P 76 '  that would load a 44 gallon drum into the boot, " for the farmers " .

Anyone tried to lift that drum out ( of the boot ) with your fingers. 

spacesailor

I have an amarok,

one of the original marketing points is that it would fit a standard euro size pallet in the tray.
and the tailgate dropped 180* to load it with a forklift....

except as soon as you put a towbar on the tailgate could onl drop the normal 90*
all that engineering and hinges... that is only possible on old pov packs as the rear bumper (step) and tow bar make it redundant

[BrendAn]

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

I'm not sure about Ford or Chrysler, but in GM the divisions fought it out ferociously for the last dollar profit, so if there was a carline somewhere it's products were bought. The usuall killer was low volume in the home country. I went to the US in the late 1970s and walked into a company with an Australian product. We settle on a price and the buyer said I'll make that the lead product for spring, I've got 1,000 shops so I need to have 150,000 delivered within 3 months. We couldn't even get the tooling done by then. The second killer is critical mass for pricing and it's near impossible for the small countries to be able to achieve a competitive retail price even though the product would be badged GM.

However there were always chinks. Holden sold the VF Commodore to GM Chevrolet and they badged it Chevrolet SS, and ran it in NASCAR racing for about 4 years, but US drivers didn't need the winding/rough road handling, so the numbers couldn't save Holden.

I really felt for the car guys, they had to make decisions so far ahead without existing data to go on. No matter what Toyota did, they couldn't get a leg in the Commodore market and no matter what Holden did it couldn't sell Holden cars against Toyota's four cylinder models, so they reached an agreement; Holden would buy Toyota's successful four cylinder models and rebadge them in return for Toyota buying Commodore, which they rebadged Lexcen, coinciding with the release of the VN. It was a marketing disaster Holden's four cylinder market share stayed in the forgettable range, and in one NSW town the Holden dealer was selling Commodores above retail price and had an order backlog of months while the Toyota Dealer actually offered his unsaleable Lexcen to the Holden dealer.

yet the lexan was a great car. toyota made over 200 improvements before they were satisfied with it. ford did it with the xf ute being sold by nissan. best one i have seen was the mazda roadpacer . a japanese luxury saloon. it was a hj holden premier with a mazda rotary engine. you lifted the bonnet and there was a little lump down low instead of a holden motor.

[facthunter]

A wankel In that car would probably be more thirsty than a giant V8. They also had little torque low down.  Nev

[BrendAn]

one of the most comfortable cars i ever had was an old renault, can't remember what the model name was. had a 1.8 lt motor and 4 speed on the tree. softest ride and the bucket seats layed flat for sleeping.

[BrendAn]

1 minute ago, facthunter said:

A wankel In that car would probably be more thirsty than a giant V8. They also had little torque low down.  Nev

yes. it would struggle with a hill. i think there were 250 produced. worth a bit now.

[BrendAn]

[facthunter]

Think I'd prefer to struggle with a P76 V8. You have to fix the Boot seal first and then the metal shavings left in the engines. I've really lost my passion for things of the 70's. Funny that I was offered at Job in motor body design at the place that  BMC stuff was built at Zetland in Sydney. I was going to say the P76 was quite a valiant effort and at least they tried.  Nev

[BrendAn]

3 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Think I'd prefer to struggle with a P76 V8. You have to fix the Boot seal first and then the metal shavings left in the engines. I've really lost my passion for things of the 70's. Funny that I was offered at Job in motor body design at the place that  BMC stuff was built at Zetland in Sydney. I was going to say the P76 was quite a valiant effort and at least they tried.  Nev

i remember the old man bought a brand new hx kingswood 202 .3 on the tree. lime green with a brown vinyl interior that burnt the sh#t out of you on a hot day. the pollution gear gave it the fuel economy of a v8 towing a horse float. horrible car. 

my grandfather had the last of the valiants around 79 or 80 model. fantastic car. lean burn 265 was powerful and economical. he had that car for 20 years never 1 problem.

[facthunter]

 Yes I worked on quite a few 202's and they were a bit of a slug. One Commercial traveller brought his in as it couldn't do a lot more than 65 MPH out west of NSW where it was pretty HOT. We checked everything and concluded the oil was getting too hot. They hold bugger all.   As I mentioned in an earlier post the Valiant had the best engine life of all the common Australian built cars. The lean burn HEMI was a bit of a stretch of the imagination  as to the HEMI extent. I think they used Stirling Moss in their advertising of it.. Valiants were great exhaust manifold CRACKERS. Many of them ended up with "fabricated EXTRACTORS".   Nev

Edited July 17, 2023 by facthunter
spelling

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, spenaroo said:

I have an amarok,

one of the original marketing points is that it would fit a standard euro size pallet in the tray.
and the tailgate dropped 180* to load it with a forklift....

except as soon as you put a towbar on the tailgate could onl drop the normal 90*
all that engineering and hinges... that is only possible on old pov packs as the rear bumper (step) and tow bar make it redundant

One of the issues with importing cars from another country; there's not much towing by cars in Europe, and the Australian dealers may not have given it much thought so maybe the dealer is buying in a rated towbar from a supplier who is not aware of the tailgate feature.

 

To see if the Tailgate feature could be used, the first thing to check are the two outer towbar mountings and whether they could be moved forward.

 

Next is whether a cross bar moved forward would clear the tailgate at 180 degrees, full drop.

If the cross bar would foul the spare tyre or fuel tank, then its Plan B and you have to make some choices.

 

If there's room for a set-forward cross bar the next step is to design a mounting tube and tongue so the tongue has clearance for the trailer coupling and the tube doesn't protrude into the tailgate arc, then from there its a matter of doing all the calcs to ensure you can get your pallet load without overloading the rear axle, and/or the trailer coupling is not going to overload the rear axle or exceed other ratings incl GCM.

 

A lot depends on what the Application and loads are.

 

 

 

If the bar can be moved forward 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

one of the most comfortable cars i ever had was an old renault, can't remember what the model name was. had a 1.8 lt motor and 4 speed on the tree. softest ride and the bucket seats layed flat for sleeping.

I'll second that, Renault had great seats.  My first car was a Renault 16, my Dad bought 2 for $500 and I bought one from him. Shit car but the seats were brilliant. 

[BrendAn]

32 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

I'll second that, Renault had great seats.  My first car was a Renault 16, my Dad bought 2 for $500 and I bought one from him. Shit car but the seats were brilliant. 

maybe mine was a 16. ugly looking thing.

[Marty_d]

None of the older ones were pretty. My parents had a 12 in burnt orange, which was a pretty common colour.

[BrendAn]

 

[pmccarthy]

Cars for the mining industry is an interesting challenge. Several have been purpose built in Australia but failed - too expensive up front mainly. Then all the imports that have been tried, including the Hummer and various 4wds from India and Asia. But the Landcruiser always came out on top, even in corrosive underground environments where they only lasted two years.