Zongshen cd 100 /912 clone

[onetrack]

That Thai rice tractor dragster racing looks like drag racing at its lowest budget level!!

[BrendAn]

3 hours ago, IBob said:

Surely does, BrendAn..............the need for speed.................)

Look at the speed they get out long tail boats . 80 to 100 mph out of bits from the wreckers.  

[Area-51]

Its all relative; either throw more fuel out through the exhaust valve using a big bore lug engine; or throw less out using a small bore high speed reduction geared engine.

 

Forget any reference to horsepower; the only useable comparative data set is "Torque" delivered at the propeller flange at RPM. Nothing wrong with running a gearbox; been done successfully for past 150 years along with pulse absorbing devices. The only difference between then and now is Material's Technology.

 

X horsepower (derived from torque and rpm formula) = X btu's regardless of capacity. 
 

X btu's = Fuel + Air @ X ratio / time

 

 

[spacesailor]

My Delica will be an ' historic ' vehicle .

IF, I can't bring myself to offload it .

They were , earlier ( June ) selling for more than I pay'd for it  25 years ago ! .

spacesailor

 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by spacesailor
A I CHANGED WORD'S again

[skippydiesel]

I know my experience is probably the exception:

 

Daihatsu  Rocky, 2.8 Turbo Diesel. Purchased new in 1985.  Sons learnt to drive in her. Towed a double horse float. Would still be driving her, if not for a young man coming out of a private drive full tilt & pushed us across the road. 750,000 km never opened the engine, other than to check valve clearance's. Other than injector/pump recon, a new clutch, she was still going as well as when new - I will never know but think she may have been good for a million km.

 

Had a "thing" for old Mercedes W123, 300D's (the last of the metal bumpers). You could pick them up for peanuts, I had two given to me, by farmer near Narromine, NSW.  Ended up with 7. All well over 500,000km's. So easy to work on. -New timing chain, recon injectors, new suspension components, replace all fluids, brake pads etc and they drove like new. I would guess I spent about $ 1,000/car in parts  and they all passed rego inspection first go. Easy 7L/100km fuel consumption. Build like a tank!.  The ones with hydropneumatics suspension handled like a tank but the all coil variants were a delight. With a little care, I have no doubt that a million km was possible from these beauties (in the eye of the beholder).

 

Currently have a 2013 Ford  Ranger 3.2L, 6 speed manual - great car but I worry about its longevity. Had a small fuel leak, from the fuel return line - Ford wanted $ 500+ for the parts alone plus labour $?, to replace the whole collection system. Took a while but found I could purchase 10 tiny little green "O" rings for $50 (still a ridiculous price) from an aftermarket place - replaced all 5 "O" rings in about 20 minutes - no leak and have 5   "O"' rings left over if problem reoccurs.

 

Seems to me that most cars are not serviced correctly, driven well and cared for, as befits most peoples second largest financial  investment. They have become disposable along with so many other items of modern life.  Unless I have been seriously misled, city driving is generally bad for vehicle (avoid the low km city car) , stop start systems can only make things worse  BUT if you only keep the vehicle for a short time, the next owner will be the unlucky recipient of a repair hungry asset.

[kgwilson]

Contrary to the view of some here, the average age of the car fleet in Australia is 10.6 years based on the 2021 vehicle census & there were 20.6 million vehicles on the road then. The average age has actually increased since the last census.

[skippydiesel]

10 hours ago, kgwilson said:

Contrary to the view of some here, the average age of the car fleet in Australia is 10.6 years based on the 2021 vehicle census & there were 20.6 million vehicles on the road then. The average age has actually increased since the last census.

There you go! 

Got to say, my totally subjective exuberance is that car age seems to be going down.

[facthunter]

The Volvo figure I assure you was correct at the time but It was way back and a very basic pushrod motor. You could also REPAIR things fully back then but long term due to high spares and labour costs is not economical  Spares cost a lot to store and catalogue. these costs do not apply to new assemblies which are usually Just in time and highly automated.  I'm very impressed at how well most doors fit and close these days  on new vehicles..  Nev

[skippydiesel]

Yeah the fit & finish is amazing BUT way to many component's are thru away (see my earlier comment on Ford Ranger fuel rerun manifold.

 

Recently helped a lady friend with her Holden Cruz - coolant leak. Went on line  seems to be a feature. Relatively new purchase,3 years old, so suggested go to dealership - about $2K later - fixed? She didn't tell me, there was an on going slow leak,  just kept driving & toping up, over the next 6 months or so - finally dropped in for a "cuppa"  & casually informed me of leak.  My advice -take it back to dealership under parts/work warranty.  Dealer -"no way, its leaking from somewhere else". I got in on the act and she got the work done for parts only cost - suggested she sell the car ASAP while all in good order. Parts replaced all plastic &  include thermostat and various electrical sensors,   have no ide wh.y?

[facthunter]

Holden don't have much action here any more. I'm sorry for their dealers . left high and dry. Quit it is a good idea.  Nev

[turboplanner]

8 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Holden don't have much action here any more. I'm sorry for their dealers . left high and dry. Quit it is a good idea.  Nev

There are no Holden dealers.

[kgwilson]

The Holden Cruze was made by GM in the US & Daewoo in Korea and assembled in Elizabeth here. It was a fairly forgettable car just like the Captiva. Who the service dealers are now is probably no-one in particular.

[onetrack]

If you want to see plasticky, rubbishy construction, start on trying to repair BMW's. The engines are absolute rubbish, with major design faults that a 13 yr old could have picked up.

A mate picked up a "good used" BMW recently, and after seeing the parts he's pulled off it, they're cheaper and nastier than Holden Captivas. And the Commodores from 2005 were absolute rubbish, 3 different engines, each model getting a cheaper and nastier engine, plastic parts everywhere, and nothing designed to last more than about 100,000kms. The last well-built Holden was the All-Australian-designed-and-built, WB series. 

 

https://jalopnik.com/bmw-engines-are-gigantic-pieces-of-shit-1784684330

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by onetrack

[spacesailor]

BUT.

There seems to be an awful lot of faults in these new car's.

Looked up ' Ford ' egr ,  lots of angst there.

Mazda electrical problems . Same sort of numbers .

Had to replace ' seatbelts ' in a 4 y o . Mazda 3 ! , what a problem that was.

Everything had to be removed from the back of the car. 

Seats, quarter- panels,  & all the trim around the boot to get at all the plastic fasteners. 

Imagine the price from a " dealership '  , plus $ 1600 each belt .

' makes me dizzy ' LoL

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

My eldest son has a friend that reckons ALL the expensive stuff has weak points. This particular person specialises in the repair and servicing of them and does work for some of the dealers.

  Bavarian Motor Werken is not a great name for a car but they are seen to be a nice car to drive. Itend to favour the (later)Aston Martins and the Lotus. A Porsch Boxter in Good order would be ok too. and not too expensive. actual secondhand prices fetched are a good indicator  Nev

[BrendAn]

22 minutes ago, onetrack said:

If you want to see plasticky, rubbishy construction, start on trying to repair BMW's. The engines are absolute rubbish, with major design faults that a 13 yr old could have picked up.

A mate picked up a "good used" BMW recently, and after seeing the parts he's pulled off it, they're cheaper and nastier than Holden Captivas. And the Commodores from 2005 were absolute rubbish, 3 different engines, each model getting a cheaper and nastier engine, plastic parts everywhere, and nothing designed to last more than about 100,000kms. The last well-built Holden was the All-Australian-designed-and-built, WB series. 

 

https://jalopnik.com/bmw-engines-are-gigantic-pieces-of-shit-1784684330

 

rubbish. our vf ss is the best holden we have owned and we have had a lot of them.

clicked over 200k now and nothing ever goes wrong with it, and the fuel economy is terrific for a 6 lt motor.

[BrendAn]

worse car we bought new was a havel jolion. it was quite well built but all the gizmos let it down, bells and whistles going off all the time steering wheel fighting to stay in the center of the lane. cruise control was dangerous and unusable. engine was 90's tech and heavy on fuel. after 6 months i sold it back to the dealer for the price we paid minus on road expenses. 

[onetrack]

45 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

rubbish. our vf ss is the best holden we have owned and we have had a lot of them.

clicked over 200k now and nothing ever goes wrong with it, and the fuel economy is terrific for a 6 lt motor.

Australian Car Reviews has a pretty extensive list of faults and recalls with regard to VF Commodores - but I reckon a lot of people seem to forget the regular repairs and breakdowns they have with their vehicle, because they worship the brand. The simple fact that Holden went out of business, shows how poorly-regarded the later models were - let alone the constantly-flagging Holden sales levels.

 

http://australiancar.reviews/reviews.php#!content=recalls&make=Holden&model=Commodore&gen=1142

[BrendAn]

20 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Australian Car Reviews has a pretty extensive list of faults and recalls with regard to VF Commodores - but I reckon a lot of people seem to forget the regular repairs and breakdowns they have with their vehicle, because they worship the brand. The simple fact that Holden went out of business, shows how poorly-regarded the later models were - let alone the constantly-flagging Holden sales levels.

 

http://australiancar.reviews/reviews.php#!content=recalls&make=Holden&model=Commodore&gen=1142

i don't have any problems with my commodore.  the last commodore i had trouble with was a new vs 5lt in 1994 i think it was. they ended up replacing a lot of wiring after 3 months of electrical problems. but i must be wrong about my vf because you are telling me i am.  i can only talk from my own experience ,i don't read much about cars because i am not really interested in the subject. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by BrendAn

[danny_galaga]

On 15/07/2023 at 11:58 AM, onetrack said:

Starters are far cheaper in total costs overall, than idling fuel costs and pollution output. I often switch off my diesel Hilux when I can see a prolonged wait. In the U.S., many municipalities have specific bylaws banning idling for more than 3 minutes - to reduce pollution mostly.

I've seen the figure on the estimated level of fuel wastage caused by unnecessary engine idling - mostly trucks - and it's a staggering figure. Add in car idling fuel waste and the figure would probably double.

I can attest to this. Ive seen signs on new York and new Jersey highways saying it's illegal to leave a truck idling.

[turboplanner]

Interesting comments on the VF.

From 1978 Holden were forced to import a design, the Opel Rekord due to the "Fuel Crisis"

This was modified and badged Commodore.

Holden now had a small car with engines from V8 down to a four cylinder for the Fuel Crisis.

That should have left Ford without an answer and heading for bankruptcy, since in Australia it took us ten years to amortise the tooling.

Australians were still fiercely resistant to change then which saw buyers flock to Ford's bigger Falcon, and by 1986 General Motors Holden's Pty Ltd had run out of cash and their $800 million of debt was paid off by GM - with the warning that this would be the last time. Two companies were formed, Holden Motor Company and Holden's Engine Company.

The VN Commodore was stretched to make it acceptible in Australia, and Holden's Engine Company built the ex-Buick V6 for it and sales rocketed off. Holden's Engine Company designed a four cylinder transverse engine for the world market, who bought it and within a year or two they'd made an $800 million profit. Then the world found cheaper small engines elsewhere, and they lost it again.

Holden's National Parts Distribution Centre from its NASCO start in the 1950s was one of the biggest money earners in the company in the early years, but with the replacement of English Bedfords by Japanese made Isuzus, a large part of the cream was wiped off, and the Commodore range had also reduced parts demand so that by the VF production NPDC had to work a lot harder for profit. That should provide the answer to critics of the VF.

In December 2013 Holden announced that Australian manufacturing would cease 2017.

There are plenty of opinions on the web, but the key factors were Senator Button and the Australian customer. As the Internet came into our lives the customers saw car designs affordable in Europe and the US at much lower prices than Australia could afford, and put the pressure on the government. Soon we were hearing statements like "Australia has to compete with the world" and the Button Plan removed the tariff protections. At one stage GM sent an Australian to China to set up a production line, but the Chinese were getting so rich so fast that the first line was used for Cadillacs.

While this had been going on, the Australian market had quietly changed because the six cylinder 6 seater car had squeezed down to 5, the caravans were getting bigger, utes couldn't carry 1 tonne, and they were still only 2WD, so limited horse float operation on wet grass, and off road exploring during the school holidays. The No1 volume selling motor vehicle in Australia today is the Toyota HiLux Light Commercial Vehicle, and in that category the derivatives usually exceed $100,000 and  have no upper price limit with US product being imported to meet demand for over 3.5 tonne towing.

In the auto industry like most places if you want to succeed you have to follow the money.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

Interesting comments on the VF.

From 1978 Holden were forced to import a design, the Opel Rekord due to the "Fuel Crisis"

This was modified and badged Commodore.

Holden now had a small car with engines from V8 down to a four cylinder for the Fuel Crisis.

That should have left Ford without an answer and heading for bankruptcy, since in Australia it took us ten years to amortise the tooling.

Australians were still fiercely resistant to change then which saw buyers flock to Ford's bigger Falcon, and by 1986 General Motors Holden's Pty Ltd had run out of cash and their $800 million of debt was paid off by GM - with the warning that this would be the last time. Two companies were formed, Holden Motor Company and Holden's Engine Company.

The VN Commodore was stretched to make it acceptible in Australia, and Holden's Engine Company built the ex-Buick V6 for it and sales rocketed off. Holden's Engine Company designed a four cylinder transverse engine for the world market, who bought it and within a year or two they'd made an $800 million profit. Then the world found cheaper small engines elsewhere, and they lost it again.

Holden's National Parts Distribution Centre from its NASCO start in the 1950s was one of the biggest money earners in the company in the early years, but with the replacement of English Bedfords by Japanese made Isuzus, a large part of the cream was wiped off, and the Commodore range had also reduced parts demand so that by the VF production NPDC had to work a lot harder for profit. That should provide the answer to critics of the VF.

In December 2013 Holden announced that Australian manufacturing would cease 2017.

There are plenty of opinions on the web, but the key factors were Senator Button and the Australian customer. As the Internet came into our lives the customers saw car designs affordable in Europe and the US at much lower prices than Australia could afford, and put the pressure on the government. Soon we were hearing statements like "Australia has to compete with the world" and the Button Plan removed the tariff protections. At one stage GM sent an Australian to China to set up a production line, but the Chinese were getting so rich so fast that the first line was used for Cadillacs.

While this had been going on, the Australian market had quietly changed because the six cylinder 6 seater car had squeezed down to 5, the caravans were getting bigger, utes couldn't carry 1 tonne, and they were still only 2WD, so limited horse float operation on wet grass, and off road exploring during the school holidays. The No1 volume selling motor vehicle in Australia today is the Toyota HiLux Light Commercial Vehicle, and in that category the derivatives usually exceed $100,000 and  have no upper price limit with US product being imported to meet demand for over 3.5 tonne towing.

In the auto industry like most places if you want to succeed you have to follow the money.

Wonderfully articulated Turbs.

 

I have always felt that the Fords/Holdens of the 1970 (when I started driving) were inferior (with the exception of tank like ruggedness) in almost every way, to the (mainland) European offerings but as time went by my opinion changed. By the 90's (or thereabouts) the quality, handling and engine technology had become World standard BUT we failed to understand the need to make vehicles that would be attractive on the World market. There is no country that has the same challenges as Australia with it remoteness from World markets and its small population base BUT there are other economy's that face similar challenges, such as the Japanese and the Scandinavian's and their problems have been overcome. I have always suspected that Australia's, failure in this market place, probably had more to do with the American parent companies  - if one or both had been European or even better Australian, we may have seen a more dynamic market focus eg when every European & Japanese manufactures was offering a diesel option, for most models, neither Ford or Holden did so.

 

 

[spenaroo]

I think half the issue was also that the American owners were protective of their own markets.
and didn't want to bring the Australian cars in to compete with their own offerings.

[onetrack]

Australian vehicle manufacturers also continued to produce product lines that were constantly declining in demand - large petrol-powered sedans and wagons - when the buyers were heading full-speed to SUV's and 4WD's.

Australian buyers were crying out for a lightweight diesel engine-powered vehicle, during regular periods of high fuel prices, so the buyers could get better fuel economy. Ford were too late on the scene, with an average product in the Ford Territory, and only provided an imported V6 diesel under constant pressure.

 

Meantimes the SUV and 4WD dual cab ute market was on fire and these vehicles provided massive profits for the overseas-based manufacturers - especially when those manufacturers realised a place like Thailand had all the ideal conditions for SUV and ute manufacture - a nation that loved 4WD utes, and bought them by the shipload - a nation that had a low-cost workforce, who were good workers - and a nation that was accommodating towards foreign manufacturers, with low taxes, and general Govt encouragement - and a nation with abundant natural resources, as well as an innovative and keen people.

 

Australian vehicle manufacturers failed to develop and produce vehicles specifically to meet Australian buyer demand, stating "high development costs and tiny market". This was pure corporate BS at its best, an approach designed to ensure all manufacturing and decision-making power resided in the U.S. and Japan.

Bedford stuck with 6 cyl and V8 petrol trucks with 4 speed gearboxes in the early 1980's, while the Japanese trucks ran rings around them with high speed economical diesels and overdrive 5 speed gearboxes.

 

In the 1930's, Australia had around 30,000 people employed in the automotive and automotive parts industries. It was a huge employer and it also led to a wide range of aftermarket and associated businesses and employment. We redesigned American-designed cars for our own requirements (the utility body style and the GM Sloper bodies were independently designed here with no overseas input).

 

Australian manufacturers from the early 1980's onwards failed to identify their potential overseas markets and develop an export-oriented programme. There was a half-hearted attempt to penetrate the U.S. market with a V8 Commodore rebadged as a Pontiac. The deal fell over after a short period, no doubt due to subtle corporate pressure.

From the late 1940's to the 1970's, both Holden and Chamberlain Tractors developed export markets for their products. Chamberlain alone exported their products to 19 countries in Oceania by the late 1960's.

 

A third of the world still uses RHD, so the repeated corporate argument that "RHD is a minor market not worth manufacturing for", is more corporate BS. Mining companies soak up vast amounts of diesel 4WD vehicles and the demand never stops, it is still increasing.

No Australian manufacturer ever made any worthwhile effort to identify the mining companies vehicle requirements, and then cater for it.

 

The failure of Australian vehicle manufacturing is a prime example of a paucity of capable corporate leadership, with short-term financial rewards based on the easy, low-cost solutions that failed to produce any innovative or exciting ideas and a failure to properly identify market trends and future demand.

But corporate "leadership" is always about lining the executives and shareholders pockets in the short term, whilst failing to produce long-term plans to develop quality products that are in constant overwhelming demand.

[facthunter]

Ford is more Euro centred now where the technology  is more cutting edge. The iron Holden V6 was beset by vibrations and earlier crankshaft issues and welch plugs falling out but the Car was light and accelerated well so appealed to the younger set It had a lot of plastic on the outside trim and it didn't handle exposure to sunlight  well.  Nev