Mid-air collision at Caboolture - 28/07/2023

[onetrack]

News reports are coming in of a MAC at Caboolture, with paramedics rushing to the scene. No indication yet of the number of casualties.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12347045/Two-planes-collide-mid-air-Caboolture-airfield-Queensland.html

 

 

[Blueadventures]

1 minute ago, onetrack said:

News reports are coming in of a MAC at Caboolture, with paramedics rushing to the scene. No indication yet of the number of casualties.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12347045/Two-planes-collide-mid-air-Caboolture-airfield-Queensland.html

 

 

Multiple fatalities reported unfortunately; occurred about 1034hrs. Terrible news. Condolences to families and all involved.

[derekliston]

Absolutely tragic but also why, being a wussy (is that a word?) pilot, I don’t fly at weekends when the gliders are flying at our airfield. Skinny white things that can be virtually impossible to see, can be coming from anywhere and power is supposed to give way to them, which is fine if in fact you see it first! So very sad all round! My presumption is that the glider crew were the fatalities? What was the powered one?

[Pookemon]

 

6 minutes ago, derekliston said:

Absolutely tragic but also why, being a wussy (is that a word?) pilot, I don’t fly at weekends when the gliders are flying at our airfield. Skinny white things that can be virtually impossible to see, can be coming from anywhere and power is supposed to give way to them, which is fine if in fact you see it first! So very sad all round! My presumption is that the glider crew were the fatalities? What was the powered one?

Shouldn't matter if gliders are operating or not - every pilot should be looking out for all traffic - and following standard patterns - and I'd expect Radio's are mandatory so all pilots should let all others know where they are. 

From a pic on that dreadful dailymail site and ABC it looks like a Jab (2xfatalities) and a Pawnee.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-28/aircraft-crash-caboolture-paramedics-respond-significant/102660186

[pylon500]

Photo's only showing one wreckage (Jab), and some Cub parked next to the strip?

Wreckage direction is odd, being across the threshold?

Did the jab hit a tow rope?

[graham brown]

Looks like aJab and Jodel to me. No gliders in pics I saw

[RossK]

Too early to get accurate info from commercial News, some sites are showing a Jodel D150 VH-PNH??? But VH-PNH is listed a a Kavanagh Balloon!

[yampy]

The other aircraft was a PA25 Pawnee.

[graham brown]

Yeah the jodel was from 2017 picture

[Pookemon]

The ABC article has a pic of a Pawnee with a great big dent in the left leading edge.  I've seen some rough Pawnee's before, but I think that might give away it was involved.

[Blueadventures]

Unconfirmed tug took out jab wing tip. Best await better update.

[onetrack]

1 hour ago, RossK said:

Too early to get accurate info from commercial News, some sites are showing a Jodel D150 VH-PNH??? But VH-PNH is listed a a Kavanagh Balloon!

Typical media - throw in a photo of a crashed aircraft, regardless of whether the photo is relevant or not. The photo of the Jodel is not relevant to this MAC, it was a MAC between the Pawnee and a Jabiru, as Blueadventures has stated.

 

Deceased in the Jabiru are reportedly a man and a woman in their 60's. The pilot of the Pawnee is O.K.

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by onetrack

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, derekliston said:

Absolutely tragic but also why, being a wussy (is that a word?) pilot, I don’t fly at weekends when the gliders are flying at our airfield. Skinny white things that can be virtually impossible to see, can be coming from anywhere and power is supposed to give way to them, which is fine if in fact you see it first! So very sad all round! My presumption is that the glider crew were the fatalities? What was the powered one?

it was the tug not a glider

[danny_galaga]

Pawnee apparently not the glider clubs

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/28/two-light-planes-crash-mid-air-collision-caboolture-airfield-queensland

 

[derekliston]

2 hours ago, Pookemon said:

 

Shouldn't matter if gliders are operating or not - every pilot should be looking out for all traffic - and following standard patterns - and I'd expect Radio's are mandatory so all pilots should let all others know where they are. 

From a pic on that dreadful dailymail site and ABC it looks like a Jab (2xfatalities) and a Pawnee.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-28/aircraft-crash-caboolture-paramedics-respond-significant/102660186

As I’ve said elsewhere before, a lot of people where I fly are not using their radios which is apparently legal. The only reason that I can think of for that is to avoid Avdata charges? The gliders a lot of the time don’t seem to use their radios! (I am not for one second suggesting that had anything to do with today’s accident!) I am not trying to blame anyone for anything, just why I personally don’t fly when the gliders are up! Obviously speculation is not good, but if it was a Pawnee and a Jab I have to wonder if it will turn out to be the low wing, high wing scenario?

[Jabiru7252]

2 hours ago, pylon500 said:

Photo's only showing one wreckage (Jab), and some Cub parked next to the strip?

Wreckage direction is odd, being across the threshold?

Did the jab hit a tow rope?

The tug plane has a big dent in its port wing leading edge. (Oh dear, somebody has mentioned this and I cannot work out how to delete my post 😠.)

Edited July 28, 2023 by Jabiru7252

[NT5224]

This is very sad news. Condolences to the families of those involved.

 

I don’t know Caboolture airstrip but reckon it might see some traffic and movements. It will be really interesting to learn how this failure of separation occurred. It is all too easy to become complacent in the pattern around a bustling airfield. 
 

When CASA did their last safety seminars they focused on  the case study of a collision between a fix wing and a rotary wing very low over a strip following some mixed up radio calls. The actual calls made by both aircraft seemed reasonable but  could be subject to misinterpretation, and both pilots misinterpreted.
 

Let’s hope this awful tragedy yields some lessons for us all.

 

Alan

[KRviator]

Taking bets how long it'll be before the ATSB comes out and says "We CBF undertaking any investigation here, nothing to learn from it, anyway" like they did for the Gympie one last year. I'm tipping by Tuesday arvo they'll have a press release out....

An unusual coincidence there's been three midairs in 18 months or so within 100nm of each other, though...

[danny_galaga]

There's at least one VH plane involved, so they are going to investigate it

[ClintonB]

News said 2 different direction runways being used, so may be an intersection collision, and missed calls.

sad for all involved, crew and emergency services.

 

 

[KRviator]

1 hour ago, danny_galaga said:

There's at least one VH plane involved, so they are going to investigate it

Gympie had a VH-reg too, and they didn't give a rats arse.

Contrary to popular belief, the ATSB can pick and choose which incidents they investigate. I was indirectly involved in a multi-million-dollar derailment and the ATSB didn't lift a finger - and when they were directly asked "Why aren't you looking into it?" responded with the line "We don't think there's any learnings for other rail operators to bother with the effort involved...."

[onetrack]

ATSB do have limitations to their budget, and the number of investigators they can call on. I guess the problem they face, is when they find an accident event which is very much like others they have investigated, there is little to learn when pilots or drivers make the exact same mistakes, that have been addressed in other investigations. In this accident, I would suspect the "high wing-low wing" vision problem could show up as a primary factor.

 

These were both very experienced older pilots, and it is this factor which is sobering here. One would have to consider if complacency has been involved in this accident. Age and experience are fertile ground for complacency.

[danny_galaga]

 

Couple killed in Caboolture Airfield plane crash identified as David and Jan Maddern - ABC News https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-28/aircraft-crash-caboolture-paramedics-respond-significant/102660186

 

[Aldo]

How unlucky can you be 1/2 second either way and they probably miss each other by 10 metres (they both would have been doing about 25m/sec, 50 knots). Looks like the Jab taking off on 29 and the Pawnee landing on 24 with the Pawnee just leading the Jab doesn’t appear to be any damage to the prop on the Pawnee so must have been in front and doesn’t look like any impact damage to the tail of the Jab, obviously just speculation on my part. 
What a sad day for the families involved

[dan3111]

1 hour ago, KRviator said:

Gympie had a VH-reg too, and they didn't give a rats arse.

Contrary to popular belief, the ATSB can pick and choose which incidents they investigate. I was indirectly involved in a multi-million-dollar derailment and the ATSB didn't lift a finger - and when they were directly asked "Why aren't you looking into it?" responded with the line "We don't think there's any learnings for other rail operators to bother with the effort involved...."

Sad day at Caboolture with a loss of life of two people in the wrong place at wrong time , let’s hope atsb take this one on as all aircraft involved where VH REGO far as we know of . It Was a chain of vents involving the distraction of other aircraft and all the holes lined up to give the worse out come . Over the last 5 five years the circuit pattern and surrounding ares Redcliffe and Caloundra strips using same frequency  has been crazy busy to the point there no really quiet day of the week to fly . There normally a near Miss at least once a month between aircraft to aircraft or even dumb birds ,a few have landed on rear cock pit parcel shelfs as we are based beside Caboolture dump . Most of us knew this had to happen one day not knowing who was going pay the highest price due to the amount of sheer movements of aircraft and distractions . Things will have to change other wise it will happen again .