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EMMANUEL • AVIATOR • SCHOLAR • ATHLETE on Reels | pilot.manny ·...

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394K views, 4.9K likes, 241 comments, 168 shares, Facebook Reels from EMMANUEL • AVIATOR • SCHOLAR • ATHLETE. pilot.manny · Original audio

 

[onetrack]

Control lock problem? He went virtually straight up, that's not a normal takeoff climb rate.

[turboplanner]

At this point it looks like he may have started his take-off run too far down the runway, or took his time opening the throttle etc, then it was too late to clear the trees, or he may have panicked and tried too hard to clear the trees.  He could have just turned slightly right and headed for those buildings on the far ridge. The height of the trees cal roughly be scaled against the compressed length of the aircraft where it finishes up. They may not have been in compliance for an ALA.

 

[Thruster88]

Given the amount of flap it is most likely a messed up go round.

[RFguy]

hard to see how close the trees were. Better to run into the trees than stall.  

Assuming not a control surface failure  (remote)  : 

What's missing here is the basics- not pushing the nose down if the airspeed is critical... no matter what the circumstance.  Must keep aircraft flying. no matter what . 

If time, turn the fuel and the master off.  and cover your face with your hands as you go into the trees.

Nothing much to learn here .. IMO..... 

(control surface failure aside)

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by RFguy

[Bosi72]

The aerodrome, taxiway markings are telling it is likely a certified aerodrome, which must satisfy legal requirements (eg obstacle clearance..). The trees in the background are optical illusion.

 

I suspect the seat locking pin broke (not every cessna has AD implemented), or simply a pilot error.. I expect it will be covered on one of the youtube channels..

[turboplanner]

Just now, Bosi72 said:

The aerodrome, taxiway markings are telling it is likely a certified aerodrome, which must satisfy legal requirements (eg obstacle clearance..). The trees in the background are optical illusion.

 

I suspect the seat locking pin broke (not every cessna has AD implemented), or simply a pilot error.. I expect it will be covered on one of the youtube channels..

Does anyone know whether the 152 uses the same pin locking seat slide method as the 172?

[Rotorwork]

From ASN

 

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/343072

[Bosi72]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Does anyone know whether the 152 uses the same pin locking seat slide method as the 172?

looking same to me, although seat is closer to floor.

 

https://www.wagaero.com/airframe-parts/cabin-components/seat-rails-rollers-stops/seat-rails/cessna-150l-m-a150l-m-152-all-seat-rail-inboard-faa-pma.html

 

 

[turboplanner]

58 minutes ago, Bosi72 said:

looking same to me, although seat is closer to floor.

 

https://www.wagaero.com/airframe-parts/cabin-components/seat-rails-rollers-stops/seat-rails/cessna-150l-m-a150l-m-152-all-seat-rail-inboard-faa-pma.html

 

 

So definitely wouldn't rule that out, along with onetrack's control locks. Reported serious injuries so with luck there'll be a pilot to talk about it, but we'll probably have to wait for the Transportation Safety Board to tell us.

[turboplanner]

5 hours ago, RFguy said:

hard to see how close the trees were. Better to run into the trees than stall.  

Assuming not a control surface failure  (remote)  : 

What's missing here is the basics- not pushing the nose down if the airspeed is critical... no matter what the circumstance.  Must keep aircraft flying. no matter what . 

If time, turn the fuel and the master off.  and cover your face with your hands as you go into the trees.

Nothing much to learn here .. IMO..... 

(control surface failure aside)

 

Plenty to learn if you want to avoid it; I've been approaching that situation twice, both times from mistakes.

[kgwilson]

I've had a 172 seat rail let go on climb out. Reported this in another thread a few years back. There was an AD on this back in the 90s or possibly earlier. When adjusting the seat & get it right you need to give the seat a good rock back & forth to make sure it is locked in place. In my case it was in a 172 that had been in the desert for more than 10 years after a drug bust & bought by a club member from the DEA for about US5k & shipped to NZ. It was put on line for a while before it was fully refurbished. I was in full power climb mode when the rail gave way. I grabbed the top of the panel with the throttle hand & pulled myself back to get the nose down. The panel fascia came right off half obscuring the instruments.

 

I'm pretty sure the 152 seat rail system is the same, just a bit smaller.

 

According to FB this was Quebec City Jean  Lesage International Airport. The main runway is 06-24 with a cross runway 11-29. Takeoff appears to be from 29. You can see the 06-24 sign at the end. There is 1300 metres from the threshold of 29 to the intersection with 06-24. The camera had good zoom as this was taken from the terminal. You can see the airbridge at the beginning. There will be report on this and the tower will have all the data.

[RFguy]

interesting. I clearly have something to learn.
so.. just how far do you end back if the seat goes back ?

[pmccarthy]

The seat rolling back on takeoff has happened to me in an early Cherokee too, years ago.

Edited August 12, 2023 by pmccarthy

[kgwilson]

39 minutes ago, RFguy said:

interesting. I clearly have something to learn.
so.. just how far do you end back if the seat goes back ?

Well in the 172 I can barely reach the yoke when the seat is fully back. When it happened there was an immediate pitch right up and luckily as I already had full power I was able to grab the top of the panel which was already showing the foam through cracks in the vinyl covering from 10 years of desert UV and gave me some grip. I was about 2-300 feet in the air at the time. Total time from the seat letting go and getting the nose down was probably only about 4-5 seconds. I didn't have time to think about anything and completed the circuit without further issue. I remember giving the owner & the CFI a serve when I got back. JGP was taken off line and didn't come back till the complete refurb was done. This one had a 180HP engine and a coarse pitch prop & had a better climb rate & angle than the standard  160HP 172M. I just checked my old log book. It was 18th of October 1998.

[RFguy]

KG- sounds like an ordeal you would rather not revisit....

 

So does the Cessna   go that far back for what purpose ? 

In my Archer, full seat back would be still flyable, just a little bit of a stretch- Although I am tall and lanky so I have long reach....

[Bosi72]

57 minutes ago, RFguy said:

interesting. I clearly have something to learn.
so.. just how far do you end back if the seat goes back ?

You can test it, lift the pin, roll the seat all way back, then sit and see how far your arms and legs reach. 

 

Not good if the yoke is the only item for hands to grab. 

 

When taking off in Cessna, I hold the whole throttle, both the knob as well as throttle friction nut..

 

[Bosi72]

1 minute ago, RFguy said:

KG- sounds like an ordeal you would rather not revisit....

 

So does the Cessna   go that far back for what purpose ? 

In my Archer, full seat back would be still flyable, just a little bit of a stretch- Although I am tall and lanky so I have long reach....

If you can do full&free controls movements when the seat is fully back, then you're fine.

[turboplanner]

11 minutes ago, Bosi72 said:

You can test it, lift the pin, roll the seat all way back, then sit and see how far your arms and legs reach. 

Not good if the yoke is the only item for hands to grab. 

When taking off in Cessna, I hold the whole throttle, both the knob as well as throttle friction nut..

 

There was a batch of accidents, 1 or 2 fatal 5 to 10 years ago and a long discussion on them, I think in GA forums, I think cause was the holes just becoming larger with wear and think all C172s were to be fitted with a more robust slide rail, but your action makes sure.

[kgwilson]

I have to sit on the front edge of the seat in the 172M to do a full/free yoke movement if the seat is right back. One of the girls in our club at the time had to fly with 2 cushions behind her back with the seat fully forward to be able to reach the pedals and yoke. She was a very good pilot and 1 year with another female from the club got a 3rd in the round NZ air race.

[RFguy]

And you wouldnt reach the pitch trim wheel in that condition in the 172...... (compared to rearward located trim  in the Archer) .  

[Bosi72]

While ago Cessna installed inertia reels attached to the floor and bottom of the seat for free.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Bosi72

[rgmwa]

I also had a seat let go and slide back in a 172 on takeoff for a solo flight during training at Jandakot. Luckily I was able to abort the takeoff and exit the runway. ATC initially didn't understand what the problem was and obviously weren't happy with the unapproved change of plan.

 

[facthunter]

The control lock is a pin in the  control wheel shaft. Pretty easy to access. Once around the world pre every take off. Checks the front PAX feet aren't in the way too.  The seat lock on those Cessna's is a real trap. The holes in  the slide rails wear a lot and the pin goes in both sides if it's done proper. You have to jiggle the seat back and forth to get both to engage. Nev

[Old Koreelah]

My nephew has been training in an old 172 in a remote area (so it may have escaped the upgrade) and I warned him about that seat rail danger. He has long arms like me, so might be able to grab something other than the plurry steering wheel. Why don’t they fit grab handles like cars and trucks?