My spies tell me Jabiru has been sold

[Kyle Communications]

Heard from reliable source that Jabiru has been sold to a company based out of Victoria.....anyone heard anything?

 

[Litespeed]

You mean to say Rod is no longer Stiff?

 

Viagra would rise the balance sheet.

[Kyle Communications]

Yes apparently so.....also told Sue was not there now either

 

[Litespeed]

Hope they are capitalised and smart enough to lead the Jabawocky crew

[Kyle Communications]

Might see a Rotax option for powerplant...they would sell a lot more Jabs I believe if they offered that

 

[Blueadventures]

Hearing 51% ownership (unconfirmed).

[skippydiesel]

11 hours ago, Kyle Communications said:

Might see a Rotax option for powerplant...they would sell a lot more Jabs I believe if they offered that

 

Also;

 

Rrevise flight control system for better "feel" and consider carbon (at least in part) to get the empty weight down.

 

A "faster" wing and a "slower " (stall) flap mechanism to address both ends of the flight envelope (it can be done) 

Edited August 20, 2023 by skippydiesel

[BrendAn]

25 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Also;

 

Rrevise flight control system for better "feel" and consider carbon (at least in part) to get the empty weight down.

 

A "faster" wing and a "slower " (stall) flap mechanism to address both ends of the flight envelope (it can be done) 

Which model are you talking about

[RocketShip]

Yep, fit a Rotax and fine tune the aircraft and they will sell. That's for sure. Have been thinking this for awhile.

Someone needs to buy Jabiru and go on with it. I sure hope this is what happens.

Edited August 20, 2023 by RocketShip

[onetrack]

Why would Jabiru damage their own engine sales by offering a Rotax option? That would be a suicidal move for Jabiru, their margins on engine manufacture are probably already slim, and offering a Rotax would simply mean that Jabiru engine sales would plummet, and cost of Jabiru engine manufacture would rise, on a smaller number of engines produced. It's not like Jabiru engines are a dead loss.

[Kyle Communications]

I suppose you have to decide what you make the most money from...engines or airframes to make that decision

 

 

[kgwilson]

They have sold 6 times as many engines as aircraft. Despite what Rotaxophiles think the Jabiru engine is well established with continuous improvements, is very well priced and has an excellent reputation everywhere except with a few disgruntled people in Australia.

 

Both the airframe and engine need to continue production and improvement over time. Aviation is a small market and overcapitalisation is a very real threat. Hopefully the new owners are motivated by their dedication to the aviation industry rather than profit only.

[facthunter]

Jabiru got caught once with it's engine supplier KFM,getting out of the market and had to make it's own. Their engine is now better than ever, simple and cheap and light weight.. .  Rod's put in enough. He may be glad to retire and has made a significant contribution to Aviation  already.     Nev

[Blueadventures]

7 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Jabiru got caught once with it's engine supplier KFM,getting out of the market and had to make it's own. Their engine is now better than ever, simple and cheap and light weight.. .  Rod's put in enough. He may be glad to retire and has made a significant contribution to Aviation  already.     Nev

Maybe engines cheapish.  Currently 2/3 Rotax price and used to be about 1/2.

[facthunter]

What are you comparing with what? . Nev

[kgwilson]

The cost of a new Gen4 3300A is $25,850 according to the website. I bought my Gen 3 new in 2013 & it cost $18,633.88 & that included the airbox & filter, carb heat muff, ram air ducts, an extended prop flange, engine mount rubbers, exhaust muffler system & tachometer & sender, oil temperature and oil pressure gauges, CHT gauge & sender and freight. The basic engine was $17,325.00. The only extras I asked for were the instruments &  extended prop flange. Everything elso just turned up.

 

With the current exchange rate an installed 912 ULS with radiator & all the bits as above would be well North of 40k.

[RFguy]

yep, you can buy a 912ULS core for 28k. all accessories if you buy rotax (expensive) ones brings it to mid 30s, I think. 
But you get 2000 hours TBO without touching it , almost. 
Still , I don't hear too many gen4s blowing up these days, either. 
Hopefully, New Jabiru  will offer Rotax powerplant for their aircraft. They'd sell alot of J230 hulls.  They might outdo C172s.

[skippydiesel]

6 hours ago, BrendAn said:

Which model are you talking about

They all have:

 

Pull/push controls - works but not a nice feel

 

A high stall/ high landing speed - Fowler flaps would go along way to fixing this. Could probably get the stall down to 30-35 knots.

 

The 120 hp variants should be able to cruise happily at 130++ knots - A faster wing (no strut?) and a bit of the Jenny Craig (carbon)would help a lot.

[RFguy]

SKippy, Jabirus are fine. I think I have to slap you with those remarks. 
Push pull controls need very little maintenance. The whole floor , covers, and rear has to be pulled up in my PIper to inspect the myriad of cables, wires, pulleys, wheels turnbuckles etc etc
Stall speed is fine. 40 knots is fine. ANything slower than that and unless your technique is good and you have a giant rudderm, crosswinds will be MUCH more of an issue for a pilot of average ability. Slow is not always good. 
Wing is fast enough and is very efficient. 
You will not go much faster than they do for a given stall speed and airframe weight . The Jabiru is about as good as it gets. sure could have a tidy up on gap seals etc, but it isnt much . 
Lower stall speed is an issue if you want to go fast because Va is proportional to stall speed. This means if it is ever bumpy, you will have to fly MUCH slower otherwise the aircraft will be overstressed. Sure yoru Faeta will cruise at 125 k, but it has to slow down to like 70 k if it gets bumpy !

Edited August 20, 2023 by RFguy

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

They all have:

 

Pull/push controls - works but not a nice feel

 

A high stall/ high landing speed - Fowler flaps would go along way to fixing this. Could probably get the stall down to 30-35 knots.

 

The 120 hp variants should be able to cruise happily at 130++ knots - A faster wing (no strut?) and a bit of the Jenny Craig (carbon)would help a lot.

i like the jab controls. the center stick layout feels natural to me. only thing i would like is adjustable seats. but if things are changed too much then they become expensive like the euro planes.

[RFguy]

yeah adjustable seats are done by swapping out various under your butt  + behind your back foam/cushion combos......

[Blueadventures]

1 hour ago, RFguy said:

SKippy, Jabirus are fine. I think I have to slap you with those remarks. 
Push pull controls need very little maintenance. The whole floor , covers, and rear has to be pulled up in my PIper to inspect the myriad of cables, wires, pulleys, wheels turnbuckles etc etc
Stall speed is fine. 40 knots is fine. ANything slower than that and unless your technique is good and you have a giant rudderm, crosswinds will be MUCH more of an issue for a pilot of average ability. Slow is not always good. 
Wing is fast enough and is very efficient. 
You will not go much faster than they do for a given stall speed and airframe weight . The Jabiru is about as good as it gets. sure could have a tidy up on gap seals etc, but it isnt much . 
Lower stall speed is an issue if you want to go fast because Va is proportional to stall speed. This means if it is ever bumpy, you will have to fly MUCH slower otherwise the aircraft will be overstressed. Sure yoru Faeta will cruise at 125 k, but it has to slow down to like 70 k if it gets bumpy !

Re push pull cables; my recommendation to all is to buy only genuine replacements; not knock offs.  Because I have investigated the failure of an inner wire that was a full break and the cable was a non-genuine (Engine control of a 32 meter tug boat).  Metallurgy testing found a high level of a certain mineral that was a cause of the failure.  Such a break failure would not be good; with wire cable you have a chance of seeing progression of degrading of the cable.

[Old Koreelah]

11 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

…and consider carbon (at least in part) to get the empty weight down.

…and lose one of Jabiru’s advantages: ease of repair. Many Jabs have been repaired in this country after prangs that would have resulted in a Carbon airframe being written off- or returned to Europe for expensive rebuilds.

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, RFguy said:

SKippy, Jabirus are fine. I think I have to slap you with those remarks. 
Push pull controls need very little maintenance. The whole floor , covers, and rear has to be pulled up in my PIper to inspect the myriad of cables, wires, pulleys, wheels turnbuckles etc etc
Stall speed is fine. 40 knots is fine. ANything slower than that and unless your technique is good and you have a giant rudderm, crosswinds will be MUCH more of an issue for a pilot of average ability. Slow is not always good. 
Wing is fast enough and is very efficient. 
You will not go much faster than they do for a given stall speed and airframe weight . The Jabiru is about as good as it gets. sure could have a tidy up on gap seals etc, but it isnt much . 
Lower stall speed is an issue if you want to go fast because Va is proportional to stall speed. This means if it is ever bumpy, you will have to fly MUCH slower otherwise the aircraft will be overstressed. Sure yoru Faeta will cruise at 125 k, but it has to slow down to like 70 k if it gets bumpy !

Your a clever chap RF but not that clever - Faeta (Rotax 912ULS) will cruise at 134 knots(18-10L/hr)  & stall at 27 knots (thanks to Fowler flaps & an empty weight of sub 300kg).  If I remember correctly turbulent penetration speeds is 116 knots . I don't have much experience in the Fate but its sister design, the Zephyr,  handled cross winds with aplomb (great rudder authority). It's a very simple aircraft (of clever design) that has very low operating costs.

 

These days I fly a Sonex - not quite finished with all the tweaks but am hoping for a high speed cruse of 150 knots or thereabouts. Unfortunatly stalls about the same as a Jab, 40 knots clean - Not much I can do about the stall - just have to adapt.

 

The ATEC aircraft (to which I am no longer affiliated) are very easy to fly, almost intuitive - far easier than the few Jabs I have flown.

 

Lower stall speed is a safety factor - more likely to walk away (unfortunately I know this for a fact) and makes STOL flying a doddle.

 

I respectfully suggest that you have accepted, without seeing what can be achieved, conventional wisdom/dogma, probably from the same era as the Piper that would seem (from your comments) to have high/complex maintenance needs and probably hourly operating costs.

 

The Jab range is to be admired BUT are somewhat  out of date - Aircraft like the ATEC Faeta could & should be being built in Australia.

 

Its quite likely that Asia will fill the technologically advanced affordable light aircraft void in Australia - then Jab will have to up its game or unfortunately fold.

[RFguy]

If I assume it is a normal category aircraft (3.8g) at MTOW, and the clean stall is 39 kts at 585kg,

then the ATEC faeta ..... Va is 76 knots.   (@MTOW J230D is ~92 kts) 

So you better slow down if you don't want to overstress the airframe.

Saying that I would still like to own one of these aircraft for high speed, low cost commuting. 

anyway this forum is about the JABIRU SALE.
 

Edited August 20, 2023 by RFguy