My spies tell me Jabiru has been sold

[red750]

Gippsaero was shut down by Mahindra Aerospace. Read the sad story here.

 

I can find no evidence of light or ultralight manufacture in Victoria.

 

Boeing and Bombardier seem to be the only builders of civil aircraft operating in Victoria.

 

[spenaroo]

still has the supply of parts and services.
which probably suits the kit supply of light aircraft, may have the facilities still to do the factory built - or leave as is.

with Mahindra's component manufacturing could take the engine build/development back to India and work on bringing prices down.
to provide an entry into the light aircraft market. at the moment they have been playing mostly with the bigger commercial stuff

[Kyle Communications]

Everyone is assuming they will shift the business itself...it wouldnt make sense to. Its at a Airport already there is plenty of building space and machinery is there...just getting rid of the old guard of owners.

As of today I am retired :)..The company i worked for was bought out by a huge european based company..and I mean huge. They sponsor 2 F1 cars in..(the pink ones). My mate and he being the boss sold the buisness late last year..the new manager they got finally has put his stamp on it and the way he wants to do stuff...I didnt really care much for all this new corporate bullsh@t he is bringing in but essentially they started to squeeze me out by keeping me in the dark as he has started to employ the engineers he has previously worked with..especially seeing I have designed all the very successful products that the new company paid a lot of money for. No skin off my nose and I realise its as Nev said its out with the old and in with the new...I am quite ok with that.

 

I would imagine jab will be the same. They will get rid of the high end staff/manage,emnt and put their methods into it

[facthunter]

As long as you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Remember VICTA. (Went to New Zealand) WE are pretty good at knocking our own stuff. Easy to be an armchair Expert with no skin in the game than be constructive.   Nev

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, spenaroo said:

still has the supply of parts and services.
which probably suits the kit supply of light aircraft, may have the facilities still to do the factory built - or leave as is.

with Mahindra's component manufacturing could take the engine build/development back to India and work on bringing prices down.
to provide an entry into the light aircraft market. at the moment they have been playing mostly with the bigger commercial stuff

everything is still in the gipps aero factory. even the jigs to build aerovans.  i went in the paintshop a few months back.  such a shame no aircraft are being built there.

[RFguy]

Well , deadly silence from Jabiru upon the question this morning amongst other correspondance.
Must be true. 
Maybe I will keep my J230 and finish the rotax conversion.  (need to do a customized exhaust system, or just use straight pipes out the side) . Maybe inject some avgas into the outlet pipes for effect instead of the strobes.

Edited August 22, 2023 by RFguy

[facthunter]

Name it the "Roman Candle" .   Nev

[Litespeed]

Weather they add a Rotax or not, the Jabiru motors are a hit even in military drones. That alone is a huge emerging market far exceeding any meat bag carriers.

 

I love the Jabawocky and it's near refusal to let pilots kill themselves. History proves they are amazing in a crash. And are easily repaired. Compare that to other plastics and crushable tin cans on sale- no contest.

 

Can they be improved? Sure but don't make it overpriced.

 

Anything a 152 or 172 Cessna can do a Jabawocky can do at a fraction of the price and will keep you alive far more often.

The old cesspools just have lots of weight to crush like a lead coke can.

 

New wings and nicer insides would be great but not if the price explodes.

[Blueadventures]

3 minutes ago, Litespeed said:

Weather they add a Rotax or not, the Jabiru motors are a hit even in military drones. That alone is a huge emerging market far exceeding any meat bag carriers.

 

I love the Jabawocky and it's near refusal to let pilots kill themselves. History proves they are amazing in a crash. And are easily repaired. Compare that to other plastics and crushable tin cans on sale- no contest.

 

Can they be improved? Sure but don't make it overpriced.

 

Anything a 152 or 172 Cessna can do a Jabawocky can do at a fraction of the price and will keep you alive far more often.

The old cesspools just have lots of weight to crush like a lead coke can.

 

New wings and nicer insides would be great but not if the price explodes.

Agree; as I have said a few times I would like to see an option of a slower wing that would allow the average low hour pilot to get out with a shorter ground run and slower stall speed and therefore less float so land much shorter.  Give their aero engineers a challenge.  Cheers

[skippydiesel]

5 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

Agree; as I have said a few times I would like to see an option of a slower wing that would allow the average low hour pilot to get out with a shorter ground run and slower stall speed and therefore less float so land much shorter.  Give their aero engineers a challenge.  Cheers

Cant agree - this country is just begging for a fast(er) wing which with the right flap type/geometry will get you your " shorter ground run and slower stall speed"

[facthunter]

The "faster (and smaller) wing won't get you airborne sooner in a higher(er) density altitude situation nor will it give you a higher cruising height or service ceiling. Any lift increase obtained by any flap will be at the expense of a lower Lift/Drag figure. It will lower the stall speed and allow a steeper descent. The best climb rate will be with a clean wing.  Nev

[Blueadventures]

26 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Cant agree - this country is just begging for a fast(er) wing which with the right flap type/geometry will get you your " shorter ground run and slower stall speed"

Understand; however that is what I desire and believe there would be  others out there in the aviation market sector.  Could be retro fit to the existing 230 fuses.  Not everyone wants to travel vast distances; just operate within say up to 3 hours and carry 5  plus hours of fuel. IMHO.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Blueadventures

[turboplanner]

 

43 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

Agree; as I have said a few times I would like to see an option of a slower wing that would allow the average low hour pilot to get out with a shorter ground run and slower stall speed and therefore less float so land much shorter.  Give their aero engineers a challenge.  Cheers

You got that in the J170 which was designed for northern Australia.

Should have worked well for the Mackay area, but we bought it as a new model in favour of the J160 and had problems in our denser air with not enough rudder area and too much lift in our colder, denser air. It was modified which I assume fixed that issue, but didn't fly a modified aircraft.

[facthunter]

IF you could just order a FASTER wing everyone would go for it. Most faster wings were of the Laminar flow type which have a less forgiving stall break. All over DRAG is a speed robber. Once the plane is there you the pilot will only go faster by power . The best AoA will give you more efficiency.  The only way to go high is by having a surplus of wing area when low and enough power to enable you to get higher.. IF your plane is overall a draggy beast only excess power will speed it up and that's quicky expensive in the fuel usage. Squared rule . Double the speed is 4 times the drag. Nev

[Blueadventures]

4 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

 

You got that in the J170 which was designed for northern Australia.

Should have worked well for the Mackay area, but we bought it as a new model in favour of the J160 and had problems in our denser air with not enough rudder area and too much lift in our colder, denser air. It was modified which I assume fixed that issue, but didn't fly a modified aircraft.

Nearly, but still not enough lift generated by the wing profile.

[RFguy]

For those wanting a different wing, a  wing change would require a lot of engineering and test.

 

I think the existing wing is fine. If you want a shorter landing airplane, just get the drag up. there is a way to do this. (apart from ensuring your idle speed is lowest possible/safe) 

Jabiru actually reduced the flap max deflection in its aircraft 2007 ish because it was found that it didnt provide anymore lift, just more drag, and that it wouldnt climb in a go around terribly well at max flap....

 

I think that extra drag is definitely  useful to reduce landing distances, and will modify my aircraft I think (move the flap motor stops ) .  Sure it wont climb easily in a go around at the max flap , but neither will my part91 certified aircraft.

 

I know another owner that used the extra available unused motor travel to reflex the flaps, for slightly higher cruise speed.... but it turns out the most drag at cruise is not the wing but the nose and the gaps and the mains.

-glen

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by RFguy

[facthunter]

All Planes with a significant amount of flap will have to get rid of most of it before it will perform. There's also a fair amount of trim change to be dealt with at the same time. Forget the carb heat OFF and you won't get anywhere at all. Anytime you need full power check Carb Heat OFF as well.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

Without any scientific rational -  I dispute that a faster wing is of necessity a smaller wing - check out the Pipistrel Virus/SW, ATEC Faeta,l VH SGS, VH SRS, (both Sonerai IIs) &  competition gliders.

 

As for the amount of flap - how much flap is at the discretion of the pilot, what I advocate is a better flap (Fowler, etc) so that the pilot has the choice to fly fast (relative to available power)due to a more efficient wing (probably laminer) & slow for lower stall & shorter landings, should he/she so choose.

 

Conventional wisdom - aircraft with slow speed capabilities can not fly fast (relativly) & visa versa - this is just BS, as demonstrated by the above aircraft

 

[spenaroo]

We all want scrappy's wing. but I doubt anyone wants to pay the cost for manufacturing and development.

 

the Jabiru is a cheap basic aircraft. plenty of other faster and slower flying options available.
no point chasing after it - if its going to take away from its primary selling advantage.

[facthunter]

Gliders have a high aspect ratio wing and large wingspan and are low drag. Good L/D ratio. To go fast they carry more (ballast) weight. A top performer would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's a very specialised machine. I also spoke of DRAGGY planes rather than slow ones . Perhaps you could read what  I wrote more carefully.  Nev

[Blueadventures]

43 minutes ago, spenaroo said:

We all want scrappy's wing. but I doubt anyone wants to pay the cost for manufacturing and development.

 

the Jabiru is a cheap basic aircraft. plenty of other faster and slower flying options available.
no point chasing after it - if its going to take away from its primary selling advantage.

230D basic starts at $163k of their webb site.

[spenaroo]

And a second hand A32 Vixxen is $172k on plane sales....

[kgwilson]

If the article in the latest Sportpilot written by Michael Halloran, the new CEO of Jabiru aircraft is how the future of Jabiru pans out, then the business is in safe hands. Whether Rod and Sue have any shareholding in the company is not stated but Michael has been associated with Jabiru and Rod since the 1990s. There is a photo of him with a Jabiru taken in 1994.

[skippydiesel]

5 hours ago, spenaroo said:

We all want scrappy's wing. but I doubt anyone wants to pay the cost for manufacturing and development.

 

the Jabiru is a cheap basic aircraft. plenty of other faster and slower flying options available.
no point chasing after it - if its going to take away from its primary selling advantage.

 

I think you live in a nice world - so many take development short cuts, why can't we? - eg Japanese copied (& improved) a lot of British automotive  engineering, that is until they realised the Germans did a better job. India has a long history of mechanical plagiarism and now the Chinese are in to it. For a relativly small outlay - say $120k you can purchase a "preloved",  current airframe , with low hrs - take it apart, use it to make molds - whatever and at the vary least you have a new wing.

[Carbon Canary]

6 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

230D basic starts at $163k of their webb site.

……and there are two in Texas for sale at AU$280,000 and AU$233,000