Sport Pilot

[skippydiesel]

Does anyone else get annoyed when reading Sport Pilot  (SP) reports on featured aircraft?

 

The latest SP features the Risen aircraft and makes some astonishing claims as to its performance - most if not all have no independent third party verification quoted. eg

" .........Risen set a new world speed record at 323 km/h with standard Rotax ULS 100hp." (174.406 knots)

 

FYI Australian Robin Austin's Sonerai II has set the World Speed Record -

 

"The Federation Aeronautique Internationale (FAI) is the sole authority for administering all flight World Records.

 

In 2008, SGS competed successfully in the FAI Speed Over a Recognized Course World Record category, completing a 500 Km flight in 68 minutes at an average ground speed of 440 KPH (238 knots : 273MPH).

 

One 200 Km section was covered in 25 minutes at an average ground speed of 467 KPH (252 Knots : 290MPH). The GPS flight logger confirmed ground speeds over 300 MPH at times.

 

SGS also competed successfully in the Aeroplane Efficiency World Record category in 2 weight classes, the best result being a 1200 Km non-stop flight around a closed course using only 43 litres of fuel.

That’s less than 7 LPH at 197 KPH (1.85 US GPH at 122 MPH).

 

In all, four World Records were established, exceeding previous Speed and Efficiency benchmarks and remaining today as the best recorded flight performances in each weight category for any aeroplane type."

[Blueadventures]

Write to the editor and give him an article on SGS also include specs of the engine prop etc.

[spenaroo]

what engine was it using,

they word is "with standard Rotax ULS 100hp"

anything can be a world record if you put enough details on it.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Blueadventures said:

Write to the editor and give him an article on SGS also include specs of the engine prop etc.

Will do however past letters(diffrent topics)  have achieved little

[skippydiesel]

7 minutes ago, spenaroo said:

what engine was it using,

they word is "with standard Rotax ULS 100hp"

anything can be a world record if you put enough details on it.

Agreed .

 

I understand (?) that Rotax 912 ULS is the normal/correct (?) way of describing the carburetted, 100 hp, Rotax engine.

 

IF this  be the one quoted it is the same engine as  SGS used BUT Robin Austin alluded to a change in fuel management - Rotec?

[skippydiesel]

My point - badly articulated  - is that SP is quoting data WITHOUT verification, wherase Robin Austin has his aircrafts performance verified by the FAI.

 

From my perspective , the Risen performance claims are very much in doubt, that is until verified by an independent & recognised authority eg FAI, CAFE.

 

One further point: Aircraft manufacturers/seller have an appalling reputation for exaggerating their aircrafts performance - SP should be doing all it can to debunk or substantiate, where appropriate, false claims.

[onetrack]

Skippy, have you searched the FAI Table of Records?

 

https://www.fai.org/records

[skippydiesel]

6 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Skippy, have you searched the FAI Table of Records?

 

https://www.fai.org/records

No! that is until just now.

 

 Cant find any mention of SGS or Robin Austin, however I find the FAI Records web page to be very difficult to interrogate.

[RossK]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

No! that is until just now.

 

 Cant find any mention of SGS or Robin Austin, however I find the FAI Records web page to be very difficult to interrogate.

You need to try harder Skip 😁

Robin Austin Records

[skippydiesel]

15 minutes ago, RossK said:

You need to try harder Skip 😁

Robin Austin Records

For sure. Thanks for that.

 

Nice to see that Robins record still stands - wonder where the Risen record is?? 😜

[onetrack]

You definitely need to try harder, Skippy ....

 

https://www.fai.org/record/17912?type=node&id=24616

 

All the latest FAI Microlight and Paramotor record claims ....

 

https://www.fai.org/page/cima-records

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by onetrack

[Thruster88]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

For sure. Thanks for that.

 

Nice to see that Robins record still stands - wonder where the Risen record is?? 😜

Robin's records while very impressive are wind assisted. Risen claim a record on their site, aircraft is in a different class with the kick arse 915turbo and retractable gear.

 

Fly Risen

WWW.FLYRISEN.COM

 

[facthunter]

Supercharging through float type carburettors is "weird".   Nev

[Thruster88]

915 is fuel injected, 914 blow through carbs work, just like the oil return system😉

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

Robin's records while very impressive are wind assisted. Risen claim a record on their site, aircraft is in a different class with the kick arse 915turbo and retractable gear.

 

Fly Risen

WWW.FLYRISEN.COM

 

"........ wind assisted." What makes you say that?

 

"Risen claim a record on their site," - yes  but only for the "SuperVeloce" which boasts a Rotax 915 - no mention of the SP" .........Risen set a new world speed record at 323 km/h with standard Rotax ULS 100hp." (174.406 knots)

[onetrack]

Skippy - I'll put the link up again, as you obviously missed it. A Risen, piloted by Alberto Rodolfo Porto, claimed a record 323kmh in 2015, powered by a 912 Rotax - and it's recognised by the FAI.

 

https://www.fai.org/record/17912?type=node&id=24616

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

Skippy - I'll put the link up again, as you obviously missed it. A Risen, piloted by Alberto Rodolfo Porto, claimed a record 323kmh in 2015, powered by a 912 Rotax - and it's recognised by the FAI.

 

https://www.fai.org/record/17912?type=node&id=24616

Saw that but confused  - Robin Austin / VH SGS claims between 238 & 252 knots. FAI verified as 218 to 237.6 knots  - the Risen above is doing 174.5 knots.

 

Just realised - Robins Rotax 912 ULS powered aircraft is in the "Powered Aircraft" class  - the Risen also powered by a Rotax 912ULS, is in the "Microlight and Paramotor" class.

 

Got to say sounds like a smidgeon of  BS going on - the Risen is, in my humble opinion, neither a "Microlight" or a "Paramotor"

Edited August 25, 2023 by skippydiesel

[FlyingVizsla]

Page 75 of Sport Pilot - How J160 won the outback air race.... Mr FV wants to know what is the gizmo with all the knobs?

 

 

[Carbon Canary]

An iPad holder……..or a fancy new autopilot with vernier precision control.
Up to you to decide.

[skippydiesel]

After giving some more thought to this :

 

The two aircraft Risen and Sonera II ;

• Are both powered by the same Rotax 912ULS engine
• Have  similar empty weights +/- 300kg

They only differ in design/construction and presumably the amount of money invested by each developer/builder.

 

The Risen has a "World Record" in the "kindy race" -  the Robin Austin Sonerai II VH-SGS has the  World Record in the real world.

 

In my opinion, Risens record is very close to Trump truth.

[Old Koreelah]

The article about the Risen has me steamed up; on page 26 is a table of the aeroplane’s specs- who uses lbs, sq ft and US gallons? An insult to Australian members who’ve paid good money for a publication taylored to our needs, not those of the one country where people refuse to join the modern world!

Lazy journalism to just plonk in a resource designed for the American market.

[facthunter]

They ARE a big part of the Aviation World. Nev

[Old Koreelah]

12 minutes ago, facthunter said:

They ARE a big part of the Aviation World. Nev

Nev that should NOT give them CONTROL! We already have to put up with feet for altitude and pilots all over the world being required to speak English (learning our language is one reason Ukraine’s pilots are taking so long to adapt to the F-16).

 

My major beef is with Australians who dump on us products that were designed for the American market. That includes Bunnings, where it’s often hard to find a metric measurement on a label, and journos who paste whole articles from the US, expecting us to somehow adapt to their strange, parochial measurements.

 

[facthunter]

Feet works better than Metres for vertical separation. Unfortunately WE have a confusing mix of Units at the moment and it can compromise safety, but I reckon we are stuck with it, unless (shock horror) some single Power takes over the lot. .  Nev

[Flying_higher]

2 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

Nev that should NOT give them CONTROL! We already have to put up with feet for altitude and pilots all over the world being required to speak English (learning our language is one reason Ukraine’s pilots are taking so long to adapt to the F-16).

 

My major beef is with Australians who dump on us products that were designed for the American market. That includes Bunnings, where it’s often hard to find a metric measurement on a label, and journos who paste whole articles from the US, expecting us to somehow adapt to their strange, parochial measurements.

 

Seriously, you may need to talk to someone about your ‘rage against the machine’….
 

Should I ask for my money back from airlines that fly Boeings as well? They use KGS for fuel but the nuts and bolts are imperial. 
 

Did you know that China uses metres for altitude instead of feet?

 

Many nations also use MPH instead of KPH in their cars. 
 

Did you also know that Aircraft in Australia can have different airspeed indicators that quote KPH, MPH or knots?

 

This is part of living in a global society where different standards apply. In a simple world this wouldn’t happen, agreed, but it’s not a simple world. 
 

As far as lazy journalism is concerned, if that’s what the manufacturer quotes I would think this is appropriate to be quoted by SportPilot too. 
 

Whilst having to mix and match can be a PITA, that’s life. As long as you know and don’t forget that you may have to convert, unlike those involved in the Gimli Glider, the world will keep turning.