Rotax 912 oil filter. Reputable suppliers?

[danny_galaga]

These guys do a good price. Anyone bought from them before?

 

https://pmaviation.com.au/rotax/

[skippydiesel]

Things like filters don't deteriorate on the shelf - never purchase one filter at a time, the shipping/postage will kill you - try for a box/buk rate

[onetrack]

As a matter of interest, you will find out when you have a filter failure, that companies will not guarantee their filters any longer than 12 mths from the date of manufacture. I found this out the hard way after an expensive engine failure caused by fine dust going straight through an air filter, thereby "dusting" the engine. It was an OEM filter.

Upon complaining about the filters performance, and wanting some engine repair compensation, I was asked for the filter manufacture date, and when I advised it was around 5 years old, my claim for compensation was simply rejected on the spot, as the filter warranty period had expired.

[skippydiesel]

21 minutes ago, onetrack said:

As a matter of interest, you will find out when you have a filter failure, that companies will not guarantee their filters any longer than 12 mths from the date of manufacture. I found this out the hard way after an expensive engine failure caused by fine dust going straight through an air filter, thereby "dusting" the engine. It was an OEM filter.

Upon complaining about the filters performance, and wanting some engine repair compensation, I was asked for the filter manufacture date, and when I advised it was around 5 years old, my claim for compensation was simply rejected on the spot, as the filter warranty period had expired.

This sounds like a scam.

 

Assuming that you had irrefutable evidence, that the filter "passed" material it was designed to hold, I doubt very much that such a position would be sustainable in law. 

 

Most filters improve filtration while in use ie filter out smaller particles. This continues up to the point of blockage. Filters are usually replaced, not because they are not working but because they are at or about to be, the point of, reducing flow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

 They would stipulate a shelf life at some stage of the game. I've seen paper air filters disintegrate and dump the lot into the motor. .   Nev

[onetrack]

Filter paper degrades over a period of time, just the same as anything made from paper. They have to set a reasonable time period for warranty, based on envisaged worst storage conditions.

 

https://www.gopurepower.com/blog/do-oil-filters-expire/#:~:text=To Be Safe%2C Throw Away Your Old Oil Filter&text=The paper filter media inside,porous to filter the oil.

[skippydiesel]

10 minutes ago, facthunter said:

 They would stipulate a shelf life at some stage of the game. I've seen paper air filters disintegrate and dump the lot into the motor. .   Nev

I guess almost all manufactured " things" will eventually decay. Fore the most part, anything to do with engines will have a unused shelf life of at least 10 years, often very much more (subject to being stored in reasonable environment). After all, when in use they are subject to a very harsh operating environment.

[facthunter]

What would you like to purchase IF you have the option?. Stuff kept for a long time has to be specially treated.  Those are generally metal.. Nev

[skippydiesel]

4 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Filter paper degrades over a period of time, just the same as anything made from paper. They have to set a reasonable time period for warranty, based on envisaged worst storage conditions.

 

https://www.gopurepower.com/blog/do-oil-filters-expire/#:~:text=To Be Safe%2C Throw Away Your Old Oil Filter&text=The paper filter media inside,porous to filter the oil.

I do not accept either your hypothesis or that of the  quote you have supplied.

 

Warranties are, for the most part, marketing gimmicks - more often than not will be contested by the supplier/manufacturer ie they are not a good gauge as to the shelf or operational lifespan of the product.

Most filters do not use "paper" - its a highly stable fibrous (could be derived from wood) filter media.

The photo is not of the same filter media from new to ?? days/months/years later

Your quote is a bit like the "best by date" found on many conserved grocery products - specifically designed to maintain  the purchase rate

[facthunter]

A lot of that filter PAPER was treated with plastic to stop moisture degrading it.. The FIT of the thread that holds it on can be suss. I've found many far too loose and the pressed case has been known to fail.. Buy a good trusted Brand. The seal of the spin on when in the box is not airtight.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

13 minutes ago, facthunter said:

What would you like to purchase IF you have the option?. Stuff kept for a long time has to be specially treated.  Those are generally metal.. Nev

You go your way Nev - for my part I like a good deal. If I can purchase more (in this case) filters, for an attractive price/unit I usually will.

 

There is a limit of course - if I am only doing 50 hrs /year each filter will be in service for 12 months  - this may be too slow a turn over rate to make a bulk purchase attractive. In that case I might call around my fellow Rotax 9 owners/  get on this Forum, and see if I can interest others in a share of a bulk purchase, at a favorable cost.

 

$36.50/filter is about $15-20 more than I would expect to pay for an automotive spin on oil filter that most likely is the same as a Rotax OM (just comparing, not advocating non original) - if by chance I get get the same filter at a more favorable cost, why not? If this means collaborating with my friends why not again? Marketing/sales is a bit like predators hunting - they will always look for the stray/individual to pick of, thus make the extra $$$.

 

Forums , like this one,  have the potential to save the aircraft owner many $$. I am surprised that this potential is not more often used.

Edited September 4, 2023 by skippydiesel

[facthunter]

I've always bought filters in a PACK but not with ones I don't use quickly.  IF a Firm stocks items they are entitled to get something for the Privilege of you just walking in, same is if they order some rare one in for you. I've got stock I never got to use. You just write it Off. It's part of doing business.  Nev

[spenaroo]

$36.50 is a good price,

last I checked my Ducati filter was about $45.

 

cant compare to automotive the qty is different.
same engines used across multiple models, and same filter used across multiple engines - manufacturing in the millions.
completely different economy of scale.
 

[danny_galaga]

2 minutes ago, spenaroo said:

$36.50 is a good price,

last I checked my Ducati filter was about $45.

 

cant compare to automotive the qty is different.
same engines used across multiple models, and same filter used across multiple engines - manufacturing in the millions.
completely different economy of scale.
 

Yeah, even at $50 I wouldn't mind. A guy at work kept saying to me- 50 bucks! What a Rip off! But 50 bucks isn't even half a tank of fuel in my plane. And I'm happy to just burn that up 😁

[spenaroo]

should see the price of filters in the hydraulics industry.
blew my mind the first time I saw a $300 filter.... and it wasn't that much bigger then a van/truck filter.
 

[facthunter]

Might have to take a hell of a lot more pressure too. Why not a cartridge filter?  Nev

[BrendAn]

3 hours ago, onetrack said:

As a matter of interest, you will find out when you have a filter failure, that companies will not guarantee their filters any longer than 12 mths from the date of manufacture. I found this out the hard way after an expensive engine failure caused by fine dust going straight through an air filter, thereby "dusting" the engine. It was an OEM filter.

Upon complaining about the filters performance, and wanting some engine repair compensation, I was asked for the filter manufacture date, and when I advised it was around 5 years old, my claim for compensation was simply rejected on the spot, as the filter warranty period had expired.

years ago i put fuel filters on a 400 cummins. they had been in the box under the bunk for years.  did a trip out the bush for grain, limped back into albany  missing a couple of pots.  turned out all the injectors had a gel like substance in them and all had to be rebuilt.  i always thought grain dust must have got in them over the years but after reading this it sounds like they may have failed from old age.

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, spenaroo said:

$36.50 is a good price,

last I checked my Ducati filter was about $45.

 

cant compare to automotive the qty is different.
same engines used across multiple models, and same filter used across multiple engines - manufacturing in the millions.
completely different economy of scale.
 

"cant compare to automotive the qty is different." - Your sure? You've compared specifications? Cut up a Rotax & then several possible automotive candidates (filter size, engine capacity, etc) and compared media area, valve types, etc?

 

The reality is, the Rotax oil filter is very likely the same as an automotive filter, which probably suits a number of engines. The problem is getting the Rotax specifications to compare with automotive offerings. Rotax 9's use a lot of automotive components.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by skippydiesel

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

Yeah, even at $50 I wouldn't mind. A guy at work kept saying to me- 50 bucks! What a Rip off! But 50 bucks isn't even half a tank of fuel in my plane. And I'm happy to just burn that up 😁

Fair comment but what if you found out for sure, that the Rotax oil filter is the same as, say that used in a Subaru and the Subaru one sells for $15. Remember the Subaru one  is likely to have a 50% markup (or more). So that would make the Rotax one has a 400-500% markup. Still okay?

[danny_galaga]

1 minute ago, skippydiesel said:

Fair comment but what if you found out for sure, that the Rotax oil filter is the same as, say that used in a Subaru and the Subaru one sells for $15. Remember the Subaru one  is likely to have a 50% markup (or more). So that would make the Rotax one has a 400-500% markup. Still okay?

Thats fine. Like the Opel/Vauxhall fuel pump. But if no one gives me a definitive part number, right now I'm not going to muck around with it. Remember I tracked down the Denso solenoid part number and a possible aftermarket starter motor. I'm onboard with avoiding the Ro-tax 😄

[Blueadventures]

Be fully careful about non genuine oil filters; seeing made in China ones on generator sets (<15kva) and the filter shell cracks as it is thin.  And you don't ever what that in your aero engine.

[danny_galaga]

Most recently I bought the 90° choke cable tube from AliExpress and throttle adjuster from a go kart shop 

[danny_galaga]

6 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

Be fully careful about non genuine oil filters; seeing made in China ones on generator sets (<15kva) and the filter shell cracks as it is thin.  And you don't ever what that in your aero engine.

What skippy and I are doing though in the main is buying the same part that Rotax use, but before they slap a Rotax sticker on it. Case in point is the starter solenoid. They don't make starter solenoids.they source theirs from Denso. So you can pay I can't remember, say $250 for a 'Rotax' solenoid or about $70 for the exact same part, from the same factory. Not a knock off, but the same part. And skippy is right about the oil filter. Rotax don't make them, it will be for some other engine/s. If you can crack the code, then you can pay the automotive price for the same part and quality. Unless it's for a BMW. I'm beginning to realise if it was for a BMW it'll cost the same. Right now though I don't think anyone can tell me what the automotive OEM is for that filter. And I want it now.

 

😄

Edited September 4, 2023 by danny_galaga

[skippydiesel]

What I'm trying to do here is show you that marketing/sales is as much about phycology as delivering a quality product.

 

It's a fact that much of what goes into a Rotax, is derived from the automotive world (scale of production keeping the price down) BUT because its an aircraft engine and  a premium price can be asked (& received).

 

This would be fair enough, if the part is really a low volume item of unique specification to Rotax  BUt all too often this has been shown not to be the case.

 

I would think it highly likely that Spaneroo is demonstrating how the psychology works (no offence intended)

Edited September 4, 2023 by skippydiesel

[onetrack]

I would be very surprised to find that the genuine Rotax 912 oil filter was identical to any other automotive filter. This is aircraft engines we're talking about, and many Rotax engines fly in certified aircraft.

 

If the genuine Rotax 912 oil filter didn't have extra QC checks and heavier metal in the main housing, I would be very surprised indeed.

 

A screw-on oil filter that split the housing would ruin your whole day, and perhaps your engine and your aircraft if it blew apart, at even modest altitude.

 

So, if I owned a Rotax 912, there's no way I'd be using a standard screw-on automotive oil filter on it.

 

Even if a genuine Rotax filter split, you'd at least get a chance of a warranty claim - I wouldn't like to see your chances of claiming for a new Rotax engine if your el-cheapo automotive filter split open, they'd promptly claim it was never designed for aircraft engine use.