New Trig Radio, weird issues

[shajen]

Hi, I’m hoping for a bit of help sorting out some issues with my new Trig TY91.  It was purchased 6 months ago but only fitted to my Jabiru last month. I’ve just had a new Gen 4 engine fitted to the aircraft so there’s been no rush to fit it. I flew it for the first time 3 weeks ago. So much static it was almost unbearable, no idea if anyone was talking to me or not. Spoke to the radio guy a few days later he said when he ground checked it all seemed ok. Haven’t wanted to take it back as it’s over an hours flight with no serviceable radio.

Since then we’ve found some of the pins were in the wrong places, and that a plug in usb was causing heaps of static. 
But now it seems like on the ground I can transmit and receive ok, although the pilot side seems much weaker.  When flying though I still can’t hear anyone from the pilots side. If I use pax radio and ppt I can hear a bit but not at higher rpm.  If I slow right down I can hear others.  
I’ve tried 4 different headsets, everything worked with the old Microair, so shouldn’t be headsets, aerial, or even the radio as it does work on the ground with everything off.
Any ideas anyone?

[RFguy]

using the internal trig two place intercom ???

wired up the headset wiring correctly?

not  using shorting jacks ?

"radio guys" ALWAYS sit in the plane with them running , up to full RPM and see how it goes...

OK overall sounds mainly like a connection problem to the headsets, or some issue with the way the headsets are wired

Please post a diagram of how it was wired in the aircraft

IE as built. If you do not get this, do not pay the radio guy. glen

[Blueadventures]

Have you adjusted the internal settings, don’t have anything plugged into your usb next time you use the radio.

[shajen]

RFGuy and Blue adventures, when I bought the radio I also bought the loom to connect from the Microair to the Trig. We’ve had the panel out perhaps 6times since then checking wiring and connections etc.  We have played around with the set up menus so many times I could recite them in my sleep.
it’s still got all my previous intercom, jacks etc. No one suggested I may need new intercom. 
 

 I left the money for the radio guy before I took the Jab home as he wasn’t available to talk to.  It’s a 1 hour flight to see him but he doesn’t seem too interested. The only suggestion from him was that he would rewire it (for about another $700) and wouldn’t use the  loom. If that was needed in the first place, why does Trig sell looms to match the previous radios and recommend purchasing them? 

 

intercom is ok from both sides on the ground, but once power is up I can’t hear anything.

Part of the problem is that the new Jab engine should not be ground run. They say for about 5 mins only for your runups then to take off or turn it off.  And I’m very worried about flying more than a circuit without a radio. Too many others around.

 

Thanks,  Jenny

[shajen]

By the way, it was only ground checked in the hangar with only the master and radio turned on. 
 

And I can’t get photos because it’s over an hours drive to the hangar and Shane and I have been there so often recently to do more checks that I think Shane would go nuts if I was to go again for photos. Must have driven nearly 2000k in the last 3weeks just to check or try something else.  Although I will be going later in the week..

 

Thinking of giving up flying, seems too hard to get help when you need it!

[Blueadventures]

1 hour ago, shajen said:

RFGuy and Blue adventures, when I bought the radio I also bought the loom to connect from the Microair to the Trig. We’ve had the panel out perhaps 6times since then checking wiring and connections etc.  We have played around with the set up menus so many times I could recite them in my sleep.
it’s still got all my previous intercom, jacks etc. No one suggested I may need new intercom. 
 

 I left the money for the radio guy before I took the Jab home as he wasn’t available to talk to.  It’s a 1 hour flight to see him but he doesn’t seem too interested. The only suggestion from him was that he would rewire it (for about another $700) and wouldn’t use the  loom. If that was needed in the first place, why does Trig sell looms to match the previous radios and recommend purchasing them? 

 

intercom is ok from both sides on the ground, but once power is up I can’t hear anything.

Part of the problem is that the new Jab engine should not be ground run. They say for about 5 mins only for your runups then to take off or turn it off.  And I’m very worried about flying more than a circuit without a radio. Too many others around.

 

Thanks,  Jenny

Have you got a capacitor (25,000mfu type) in your circuit and if so is it still serviceable? (they do ultimate noise)

 

My trig needs internal adjustment for David Clark head sets for example.

 

Don't give up, yes it is frustrating at times but must bust through that thought.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Blueadventures

[shajen]

Blue adventures . I’m a bit ignorant, what does a capacitor look like, where would I be likely to check?

[Blueadventures]

4 minutes ago, shajen said:

Blue adventures . I’m a bit ignorant, what does a capacitor look like, where would I be likely to check?

Blue or Black in colour, about 35mm round and 75 mm long.  Most likely on firewall inside cabin side but could be engine side.

[shajen]

No, don’t think I’ve seen anything like this . Will double check when I’m over there next.

thanks

[Blueadventures]

4 minutes ago, shajen said:

No, don’t think I’ve seen anything like this . Will double check when I’m over there next.

thanks

A wiring diagram for your model will say if one is fitted.

[Blueadventures]

38 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

A wiring diagram for your model will say if one is fitted.

For info there is a  capacitor for this Jab 3300 engine fitup (Sonex).  Follow R lead from rec/regulator.

[shajen]

Thanks Blueadventures,

I’ll chase up the radio guy tomorrow. Interesting!

[RFguy]

I wonder if a pre-built / wired  harness is something that should be considered.
there really isnt much to it.

Otherwise labour costs in plane are not insignificant.

 

Shajen, you can ground run the jabiru, just watch the CHTs. Don't let them get over 150C on ground .

If the idle is set correctly, there is no problem ground running most Jabirus, but it wont charge the battery at that RPM.

 

Do you have CHTs on all cylinders? If not, forget flying a Jabiru until you do.....

 

[RFguy]

Thinking about this, so many unknowns

 

what is the existing intercom type and how has it been wired to the radio ?

 

[jetboy]

On 23/09/2023 at 5:39 PM, shajen said:

Hi, I’m hoping for a bit of help sorting out some issues with my new Trig TY91.  It was purchased 6 months ago but only fitted to my Jabiru last month. I’ve just had a new Gen 4 engine fitted to the aircraft so there’s been no rush to fit it. I flew it for the first time 3 weeks ago. So much static it was almost unbearable, no idea if anyone was talking to me or not. Spoke to the radio guy a few days later he said when he ground checked it all seemed ok. Haven’t wanted to take it back as it’s over an hours flight with no serviceable radio.

Since then we’ve found some of the pins were in the wrong places, and that a plug in usb was causing heaps of static. 
But now it seems like on the ground I can transmit and receive ok, although the pilot side seems much weaker.  When flying though I still can’t hear anyone from the pilots side. If I use pax radio and ppt I can hear a bit but not at higher rpm.  If I slow right down I can hear others.  
I’ve tried 4 different headsets, everything worked with the old Microair, so shouldn’t be headsets, aerial, or even the radio as it does work on the ground with everything off.
Any ideas anyone?

So back the truck up a bit here....

You fitted a Gen4 engine, from all appearances the gen4 went back to carbon spark plug leads, like gen1. Around gen2 and 3 they were using inductive (spiral wound) core leads which are much better at suppressing ignition noise.

Gen4 also has completely different ignition coil packs, and what about the regulator, is that new too? If you only fitted a replacement radio, then I guess its only to do with the radio.

 

Secondly you say some pins were in the wrong places, so exactly where were they and where are they now? Everybody would like to help but we can't work out what is connected.

 

When you can't hear anyone, is the mute set open or is it being shut due to noise? If you open it manually, can you hear them?

If others can't hear you, 9 out of 10 times it will be the mic gain setting too high for the level your headset mic is providing, and if set up without engine running this needs to be done yelling into the mic, as that is the level the radio will see in flight, typically.

 

Radio is a black art, a hangar mate once had his plane fitted with a new radio, a good one, keeping the Microair as com2.

But sitting in the hangar bck home, the new set was noisy as hell, so he got the radio guy to drive up (2hrs) and change antennas over and stuff and it was still bad.

It got remarkably better when I switched the hangar lights off. They were fluros with the Thorn electronic ballasts. PS. the same can happen with cheap LEDs and USB outlet sockets.

 

Best of luck, take your time.

[shajen]

RFGuy and BlueAdventures, have either of you heard of spark plug leads causing problems?

Had a radio guy look at it last week, rewired a few things, checked everything, all seems correct. On the ground it is clear as a bell, 5x5! But when I have power on, ie over about 2000 RPM, I can’t receive, or can but not enough to decipher what is being said, very, very faint. If I pull power and speed back to about 2000rpm and speed 80 and below I can hear again. So it’s power related. My friend on the ground said he could hear me clear enough.

since I have the new engine in it perhaps the new leads aren’t shielded enough? Is this a possibility? Worth looking further into it?

[shajen]

Flyboy, yes new gen4, new spark plug leads, new regulator. New Trig radio with a pre-wired harness to go from Microair to trig. Antennae, jacks, ptt, intercom switch, and headsets all as before. 
We found that pins for mic 1 and 2 and ptt 1 and 2 were in wrong places. Really didn’t make much difference though. Took out a cheap usb plug and that stopped the noise on the ground.

The radio guy I’ve been to this week found there were earth wires missing from ptt and missing earth pins in the harness. He has rewired direct now instead of using pre made harness. 
so now it’s great on the ground, intercom great too. We can hear everyone clearly and they can hear us.

But put on power and it’s a different story! On climb out with full power, and cruise power I can no longer hear anyone. 
Appears they can still hear me clearly, but nothing my end. When I decrease power and speed, the slower and less power output, the better my reception is.

This is where I’m up to now. So it’s not the radio, headsets, intercom or aerial. But somehow connected to power output.

Next thing to look at will be spark plug leads, or ground earth on the engine??

I would hate being a avionics person, you get problems like this to sort out🙄

[shajen]

RFGuy, no I don’t have CHT EGT gauges so I’m pretty cautious about ground running too long

[Blueadventures]

May not help; but could, is the antenna ground plane earthed to the negative terminal of the battery?

[shajen]

Thanks, something else to check

[RFguy]

right, back from my latest weekend YBHI adventure. 
Antenna ground plane need not be earthed.
Since I have a Jabiru and I  'wrote the book on radio'  :, please answer the following :

0) Check the connector on the antenna for tightness (BNC bayonet  locked) AND what sort of connector ???

- recently I found someone has a right angle adaptor between the radio  and the antenna  plug- this right angle adaptor wasnt the best and caused reception breakup  > 2000 RPM ! (bad connection) .
Remove adaptor ! If you need right angle- use  with a right angle plug , no adaptor 

1) Which antenna is this radio connected to- the antenna in the tail, or the antenna before the rear bulkhead ?

2) To your knowledge , are your transmissions affected ?

3) Have you tested what the VSWR is of the antenna ?

4) Can you physically vibration decoupler the radio from the panel- just loosen the mounting sc rews a couple of turns - does the problem still happen ?

 

that's a start.

 

[shajen]

RFguy you would have had a great weekend at YBHI. Weather was perfect!

 

It's a screw in antenna. Antenna is in the tail fin.

I've been told that others can hear my transmissions ok.  I just can't hear them when I have much power on ie over about 2200 RPM.  Can start hearing again when RPM is low.

Haven't tested the VSWR, but will be seeing the avionics man again next week. I can ask him to check.

Next week when I'm back at Benalla I will try loosening the screws and go for a circuit, see what happens.

 

Curious though,  Why do you think it may be antenna problems?  The antenna was working fine with the old radio.  Apart from new radio install, I've had a new engine fitted.

Have ordered ferrous thingies?? as it's been suggested that I should try fitting them onto the lead from the distributor cap.

Will also check the ground plane earthing that BlueAdventures suggested.

Thanks again

[shajen]

Blueadventures, there isn't a capacitor anywhere in the dash that I can see.

I will get this sorted though!!!!

[RFguy]

Unless you have a sick Alternator Regulator, I dont think it should need the capacitor.

 

Well, I had a colleague the other week and was IDENTICAL symptoms- and it was the connector.... I'd be looking there. TX was fine.

 

Loosening the screws can tell you if you have some sort of microphonic in the radio. 

 

BTW when you say "It's a screw in antenna. Antenna is in the tail fin." - Jabiru factory dipole antennas in the tail are not screw on antennas- what are you referring to ?

 

[RFguy]

and if you fly with a Jabiru engine , you are absolutely completely nuts flying without CHT/EGT - a failure will be just around the corner....