Excessive Medical requirements

[Jerry_Atrick]

That's fat-st, OT.. Shame on you! 😉

 

Seriously, outside the effects of that obesity, there is usually some medical or psychological condition the predicates people in that position. I weas talking to a DAME (well, over here, they are just called AMEs) about it, and he has passed class 2 obese people because there were no obvious signs of impending issues, despite the risk that they may well develop conditions very quickly in between medicals.

 

Over here, you can still get a Class 2 if you are colour blind, have diabetes, and a few others that would previously rule out the class 2. However, there are restrictions placed on you flying. For example, colour blondness (depending on the type) will usually stop you from night VFR, but some will allow you instrument flying (day, I think). I don't knoiw all the rules, TBH; just what I read in the magaiznes and AOPA.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I love the term colour blondness, it would explain a lot. 

[onetrack]

Jerry, I was always under the impression that morbid obesity was a very present and serious threat to a persons health - let alone the restrictions placed on their physical ability to do everyday jobs.

It's become obvious to me that a lot of people are "gaming the system", to acquire jobs that they simply should not be placed in.

I know the trucking industry is desperate beyond belief to acquire drivers, but this bloke drove it home to me, just how deep that desperation is.

I'm not talking about people that are just a bit overweight or pudgy, I'm talking about people who are virtually unable to carry out required basic moves, such as bending over to pick up something off the floor.

Then there's the problem that these people weigh substantially more than a lot of equipment is designed to carry. Most seating has a 120kg weight limit, so they're creating hazards just by their sheer weight.

And imagine the diet choices of an already morbidly obese truck driver! - substantial amounts of greasy roadhouse deep-fried food, pies, pasties and sausage rolls!

This truck driver is not an orphan, I'm seeing a substantial increase in these type of people, everywhere I go now.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

Jerry, I was always under the impression that morbid obesity was a very present and serious threat to a persons health - let alone the restrictions placed on their physical ability to do everyday jobs.

It's become obvious to me that a lot of people are "gaming the system", to acquire jobs that they simply should not be placed in.

I know the trucking industry is desperate beyond belief to acquire drivers, but this bloke drove it home to me, just how deep that desperation is.

I'm not talking about people that are just a bit overweight or pudgy, I'm talking about people who are virtually unable to carry out required basic moves, such as bending over to pick up something off the floor.

Then there's the problem that these people weigh substantially more than a lot of equipment is designed to carry. Most seating has a 120kg weight limit, so they're creating hazards just by their sheer weight.

And imagine the diet choices of an already morbidly obese truck driver! - substantial amounts of greasy roadhouse deep-fried food, pies, pasties and sausage rolls!

This truck driver is not an orphan, I'm seeing a substantial increase in these type of people, everywhere I go now.

 

[turboplanner]

Just now, turboplanner said:

 

There were lots of deaths in over the road applications, not all in accidents and it was the wives that stepped in and said enough was enough. They started a drive for better control of fatigue and better food. Roadhouses were pressured to introduce low kilojoule and more health food, and tougher licence conditions were introduced. I can remember the fatality count coming down in Victoria to 47 per year, but the rate has crept up again mainly due to drugs used to combat fatigue.  

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

There were lots of deaths in over the road applications, not all in accidents and it was the wives that stepped in and said enough was enough. They started a drive for better control of fatigue and better food. Roadhouses were pressured to introduce low kilojoule and more health food, and tougher licence conditions were introduced. I can remember the fatality count coming down in Victoria to 47 per year, but the rate has crept up again mainly due to drugs used to combat fatigue.  

Roadhouse food is the worst it has ever been . Most of them now have McDonald's or hungry jacks.  You used to be able to order a proper meal once . 

[Bernie]

I hold a heavy combination driving license, I'm not over weight about two kg above what I was in the 90s that's 82kg.

I don't and never have had a medical to keep my license.

I don't drive HC not since about 2000,but still retain the license.

I also have bike and boat license, and don't have either of them anymore.

Bernie.

[facthunter]

If you are morbidly obese you certainly won't be able to do a stress ECG (Bruces Protocol) Neither can sone FAT pilots. they get an injection of adrenaline to get their heart rate to 150. Morbidly obese people can't just get weight off safely by any normal process. They would require hospitalisation and even then would have risks.  Nev

[spacesailor]

How Did a UK pilot , get a licence to fly !

When 

He is ' legally BLIND ' ? .

HE FLEW into  " Mascot airport " . To a civic reception. 

On his ' round the world ' flight .   ( didn't see much of his journey) .

spacesailor

[KRviator]

The sooner this comes in, the better, but I don't know if it'll be any benefit to yours truly...

I have a newly-diagnosed, but very minor medical issue I disclosed in my last C2 a couple months back. Unless I told you, you'd never know about it. 8 weeks later, several phone calls to AvMed after the 4 week ETA passed, the application being marked as "urgent", the DAME2 himself recommending the issuance of the medical and I'm still waiting.

The sad thing is, I also drive some of the biggest trains on the planet and the last rail medical I did I went in with exactly the same paperwork I had for the DAME, and walked out 2 hours later with my rail Cat 1 in hand, including ECG and all the rest. That medical isn't specific to my employer or anything, it carries across like a Class 1/2, so I could get a job driving the XPT with no co-driver, with 400 POB at 100 miles an hour. 

But here we are, 2 months after I did my aviation medical and CAsA are still sucking their thumbs while the RV's parked up in the hangar gathering dust.

[BrendAn]

3 minutes ago, KRviator said:

The sooner this comes in, the better, but I don't know if it'll be any benefit to yours truly...

I have a newly-diagnosed, but very minor medical issue I disclosed in my last C2 a couple months back. Unless I told you, you'd never know about it. 8 weeks later, several phone calls to AvMed after the 4 week ETA passed, the application being marked as "urgent", the DAME2 himself recommending the issuance of the medical and I'm still waiting.

The sad thing is, I also drive some of the biggest trains on the planet and the last rail medical I did I went in with exactly the same paperwork I had for the DAME, and walked out 2 hours later with my rail Cat 1 in hand, including ECG and all the rest. That medical isn't specific to my employer or anything, it carries across like a Class 1/2, so I could get a job driving the XPT with no co-driver, with 400 POB at 100 miles an hour. 

But here we are, 2 months after I did my aviation medical and CAsA are still sucking their thumbs while the RV's parked up in the hangar gathering dust.

a lot of these medicals are just rubbish.  i have hearing loss of the higher tones same as just about everyone that has worked in a noisy enviroment.  anyway i failed a truck driving medical with brambles, when the hr woman rang to tell me i said i just heard everything you said so whats the problem . she had no answer.

[facthunter]

Planes don't run on rails though, or fall quickly if they slow up. There's a big difference. BUT the flying medical needs to be more related to the type of flying you want to do. Dispensations given for restrictions accepted. There's a balance. Nev

[johnm]

......... there an opening here for a 'vegan' / vegetarian roadhouse

 

the truck parking could be a staged construction .................... as popularity increases

[Bruce Tuncks]

About 20 years ago, I was asking a bunch of truck-drivers at Kulgera just when they thought the road to Uluru would open. ( flooding was around).

I remarked that they didn't look like truck drivers to me, there was not a blue singlet with overhanging belly in sight.

They said that " all those guys failed their medical".

So I am surprised at the story about the morbidly obese guy, but it does align with the truck driver who killed my mate and his wife recently.

The trucky was on the wrong side of the road and on his phone when he killed those in the little white Alpha going the other way.

I reckon he would have failed any reasonable check-test on account of being too stupid to drive such a lethal machine, and so I ask again that such drivers be kept off the road.

[BrendAn]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

About 20 years ago, I was asking a bunch of truck-drivers at Kulgera just when they thought the road to Uluru would open. ( flooding was around).

I remarked that they didn't look like truck drivers to me, there was not a blue singlet with overhanging belly in sight.

They said that " all those guys failed their medical".

So I am surprised at the story about the morbidly obese guy, but it does align with the truck driver who killed my mate and his wife recently.

The trucky was on the wrong side of the road and on his phone when he killed those in the little white Alpha going the other way.

I reckon he would have failed any reasonable check-test on account of being too stupid to drive such a lethal machine, and so I ask again that such drivers be kept off the road.

i pass dozens of car drivers every day gas bagging and texting instead of concentrating on driving. its not just truck drivers.

car drivers are far worse. i see the stupid stuff they do every day.

[Geoff_H]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

Planes don't run on rails though, or fall quickly if they slow up. There's a big difference. BUT the flying medical needs to be more related to the type of flying you want to do. Dispensations given for restrictions accepted. There's a balance. Nev

It's my opinion ion that driving a  big train is more about economic loss.  Blocking the line and stopping iron ore getting through is many millions of dollars.  Theft crimes get bigger sentences than murder!  CASA has the problem that they are responsible for the safety of the air.  So if someone dies at the controls they could theoretically be sued.  Losing more than 1 cent by a public servant is a serious issue.   Could result in dismissal. 

[facthunter]

People have died at the controls a few weeks after passing the  full ATPL medical. The current set up is not effective in predicting  loss of ability to continue piloting in flight. Food poisoning and dehydration are causal factors. Appropriate treatment and monitoring is effective.  We all kow of many accidents but how many of them are due to incapacitation. IF you feel crook, don't fly. It's not as if you HAVE to do it.  Nev

[onetrack]

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe trying to successfully sue CASA is akin to trying to herd cats. Just look at the number of aggrieved people who have tried - and failed.

CASA can always deflect the blame onto the pilot, the LAME, or the AOC holder, for failing to follow precisely-delineated CASA procedures and regulations.

Julie Black, the widow of pilot David Black, tried to sue CASA for being negligent over airworthiness directives, and CASA conveniently settled out of court, thus avoiding major court scrutiny.

However, the judge in her case was scathing over the "organisational incompetence of CASA" with regard to their performance in overseeing the safety of the Dromader David Black was flying.

In another case, Eagle VS CASA, a pilot tried to sue CASA for unreasonable delays in approving his medical. His case failed, as the judge declared that safety took priority over bureaucratic speediness and claimed financial losses, to anyone under CASA's control.

[facthunter]

You are operating under a regime of "Strict Liability" . You'd have to be a fool or desperate to agree to this. CASA has deeper pockets than you. Nev

[kgwilson]

The UK gave up the requirement for medicals in 2015 & implemented self declaration of medical fitness for a GA PPL. Then of course their decision was based on evidence and logic. Of all the crashes causing death in the past 45 years they found 6 that had a medical issue involved but not one had a medical issue as a primary cause.

[Jerry_Atrick]

That is sort of true, and sort of not. The grandfathered UK PPL, of which none have been issued since the JAA (Joint Aviation Authorities) and later, EASA PPLs can be flown on a PMD (Pilot Medical Declaration). However, these still cannot be issued, and after Brecit, the UK has a Part FCL PPL, which will eventually replace the grandfathered UK PPLs. These do required a class 2 medical. I believe that the original UK PPL is no longer considered ICAO compliant and definitely is not ICAO compliance if being flown with a PMD, and while dlying arond the UK - especially to Scotland in the suimmer is lovely, eventually you will want to go abroad.

 

There are effectively two types of sports licences in the UK - National PPL (NPPL), which can be flown using a PMD, or, if you want to fly into Europe, a Part-FCL LAPL (Light Aircraft Pilots Licence), which requires a LAPL medical certificate if you want to fdly in Europe.

Medical requirements for private pilots - LAPL | Civil Aviation Authority

WWW.CAA.CO.UK

---

Information on medical standards, certificates and self-declaration of medical fitness

 

 

I just got my CAA and CASA Class 2 medicals.. Not much seems to have changed since my very first one in the early 90s... Except the bureaucracy.

[spacesailor]

Is there a chance of dropping the age. " discrimination " for ' car drivers ! .

If the doctor says ' good ' , why should " bureaucrats " over-ride that decision. 

spacesailor

[LoonyBob]

The original 95:10 weight limit of 400lb MTOW was judged to be the maximum weight that would not retain velocity on passing through a tiled roof... this is a great precedent for an energy argument, which the heavy Vehicle license equivalent ties into. If it is deemed an acceptable risk to the public to drive a road-train full of petrol, then an aeroplane having a kinetic energy euivalent to the total energy of said truck is also acceptable, with the same level of training and medical. Sorry, shouldn't use logic...

 

I wonder if CASA have yet acknowledged that "General Aviation" is no longer a pool of reserve pilots for the RAF in event of WW2 breaking out?

[spacesailor]

L. B.

That was good . Untill a " Better " aircraft came along,  then they ' bent ' those rules to add.

" wing load rule " . With an escape clause " , 

IF you have flown before  that rule, you are " grandfathered " , just have to pay the penalty of ' flying without '  a licence or registration. 

Or just transfer to VH experimental  rego . Just one of only .

A link to a " 61 mpg 100 Mph "  . Airliners.net/photo/untitled/Hummel-Bird/2755261/L

spacesailor

 

 

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

airliners.net/photo/untitled/Hummei-bird/2755261/L

A I 

Got me again , with it's capital A

spacesailor