Light aircraft crash near Palgrave, Qld. 19/10/23

[dlegg]

https://www.inverelltimes.com.au/story/8392973/crews-on-the-scene-after-reports-of-light-plane-crash/

[FlyingVizsla]

Emergency services called to light plane crash at Palgrave on Southern Downs - ABC News

WWW.ABC.NET.AU

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Emergency services are at the scene of a light plane crash south-west of Warwick. Firefighters say a grassfire has started as a result.

 

[planedriver]

Thats not looking good judging by 2nd photo.

[derekliston]

Not a lot left after it burnt! Did the pilot/s survive? Only from the burnt shape it looks like it could be one of the flying school diamonds? Anyone know more yet? I fly from Warwick but didn’t today because I didn’t like the wind.

[SGM]

Jabriu J160 per RAAus https://members.raa.asn.au/safety/accident-and-defect-summaries/

[red750]

Seven news advises pilot deceased.

 

Jabiru 160 according to https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/346980

 

[FlyBoy1960]

Looks like its upside down to me, the undercarriage legs are on top of the wreckage.

[Toestub]

Definitely inverted and lack of a skid. Bloody strong wind today

[FlyBoy1960]

Details released Pilot.  Mervyn Mudge

[planedriver]

So sad. RIP Merve

[derekliston]

So sad, such an unforgiving hobby. Also glad it wasn’t one of our Warwick crew!

[onetrack]

Merv Mudge was an ex-RAAF Flight engineer and an accomplished pilot.

 

One has to suspect a possible severe medical event was behind this crash, where the aircraft crashed inverted, and where the aircraft appears to show no in-flight structural failure.

 

http://airmanaircrew.com.au/html/airman_aircrew/categories/composite/mu4494496306.html

[danny_galaga]

I hate that the news has quoted ATSB as saying they don't investigate because it is 'kit built '. The reason they don't investigate (all the politics aside) is it is an RA AUS registered plane . If it was kit built and VH registered it would be investigated I presume.

[pmccarthy]

ATSB can choose what they investigate. They don't have to investigate all VH reg accidents.

[facthunter]

They are not funded at a figure that permits them to investigate all accidents or incidents.  Nev

[onetrack]

ATSB make a decision on whether to investigate, based on whether there's something new, as regards safety, to be uncovered. People still crash regularly, making the same pilot mistakes, over and over again.

 

But the circumstances here would reasonably indicate the cause behind the crash, is incapacity of the pilot. A post mortem could possibly reveal that for sure, but that's not guaranteed, either. 

 

However, the simple fact that the aircraft was being flown by a competent and experienced pilot, and came down inverted in one piece, points to pilot incapacity.

 

If any competent and experienced pilot is still functional at the controls when something goes wrong, and the aircraft is still in one piece, one would expect they would at least be able to attempt to land it, the right way up.

 

I'm not a doc, but from long experience and knowledge, I can see physical features in the pilots photo that would lead me to believe he would either have a history of heart and arterial problems, or a high chance of developing them.

[Thruster88]

It is most unlikely that the aircraft crashed while inverted. Aircraft invert regularly after a hard landing.

[danny_galaga]

3 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

ATSB can choose what they investigate. They don't have to investigate all VH reg accidents.

Sure. What I mean though is the fact the plane is kit built is not the reason they are not investigating it.

[facthunter]

By itself, I wouldn't think so, but who really knows?   Nev

[Roundsounds]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

ATSB make a decision on whether to investigate, based on whether there's something new, as regards safety, to be uncovered. People still crash regularly, making the same pilot mistakes, over and over again.

 

But the circumstances here would reasonably indicate the cause behind the crash, is incapacity of the pilot. A post mortem could possibly reveal that for sure, but that's not guaranteed, either. 

 

However, the simple fact that the aircraft was being flown by a competent and experienced pilot, and came down inverted in one piece, points to pilot incapacity.

 

If any competent and experienced pilot is still functional at the controls when something goes wrong, and the aircraft is still in one piece, one would expect they would at least be able to attempt to land it, the right way up.

 

I'm not a doc, but from long experience and knowledge, I can see physical features in the pilots photo that would lead me to believe he would either have a history of heart and arterial problems, or a high chance of developing them.

Many possible causes…

 

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/occurrence-briefs/2018/aviation/ab-2018-124

[facthunter]

That comment seems fair and reasonable. A horrible situation to be with in flight.  Nev

[onetrack]

One would've expected a mayday or some radio transmission indicating fire or smoke, if such was the case. I know the rules are "aviate, navigate, communicate", but generally smoke gives a substantial warning time before fire, and gives one time to send out a mayday. I see no gouges in the ground that would indicate the aircraft landed the right way up, then inverted after nosing in. The ABC video gives a lot of clear aerial viewing of the crash site.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-19/light-plane-crashes-palgrave-southern-downs-grass-fire/102998074

[facthunter]

Communicate is only IF you are not fully occupied saving yourself. No one on the ground can help you  most times, so why waste time?  Nev

[RFguy]

I wonder if my concerns about the way Jabiru aircraft are wired is any contribution to the (post?) accident fire.

[danny_galaga]

It's all too early to know. There's a very good chance it caught on fire after coming down, but in-flight is plausible too. If they don't look at the aircraft particularly carefully, maybe the biggest clue will be the autopsy - illness/heart attack, smoke in lungs? , etc