Light aircraft crash near Palgrave, Qld. 19/10/23

[turboplanner]

The material is FRP, Fibreglass reinforced Plastic.

Glass doesn't burn, just melts.

So we come to the plastic and there are dozens of them to choose from to suit the application.

There are fire retardant resins, so that's what I would use in an aircraft construction.

There used to be a video floating around of a UK fuel tanker which had been in a crash. The whole tank was on fire and the fuel could be seen boiling, but the tank was still holding up.

For those who want to know the strength properties of the various FRP laminates of a certain thickness with a suitable Fire Retardant resin suitable for outdoor weather operations vs the resins currently used in these aircraft that caught fire, I would suggest contacting Monsanto.

[derekliston]

4 hours ago, Markdun said:

Aluminium better for sure, but it burns too.  Ask the British navy about that.

 

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

Set alight by  exocet  missiles. That's a high ignition temp. Usually aluminium just melts when cars burn. Gears sitting in a shield of molten aluminium on the road. Be good as a shed  Ornament.. "From the Hottest Car I ever had".  Nev

 

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

Set alight by  exocet  missiles. That's a high ignition temp. Usually aluminium just melts when cars burn. Gears sitting in a shield of molten aluminium on the road. Be good as a shed  Ornament.. "From the Hottest Car I ever had".  Nev

Fairly sure that the Sheffield was an aluminium/magnesium alloy, so not surprised that it burnt and the Exocet didn’t even explode. It was the still burning rocket motor that set fire to the ship!

[spacesailor]

Now a factory has ' exploded ' by molten aluminium hitting water . ( China perhaps  ).

spacesailor

[facthunter]

I know a bloke who was on one of  those ships that struggled back with a temporary patch on it. Apparently it was a pretty unnerving event. If there's enough magnesium in it to ignite it would corrode pretty badly in salt water.   Nev

[Markdun]

Big topic drift, but lots of metals burn, not just Mg… just need the right conditions. I ignited a solid fuel rocket (with a parachute flare) for the King of Tonga in Nuku Alofa harbour in 1985 by lighting steel wool (mostly Fe) with a 12V car battery. The steel wool was packed under the solid propellant.  The original potassium chromate igniter was too wet.  I’ve also read that DC3 aluminium alloy wing spars didn’t last too long after an engine fire.  That all said, there’s still a lot of advantage in an aluminium aircraft structure in terms of fire resistance vs composite.  The only really big disadvantage of s metal structure is the heat conduction issue, particularly for fuel tanks; that can be important.

I’ll certainly be relooking at everything firewall fwd in my J200 for sustaining a fire, and reviewing procedures, including immediate shutting down of engine (no fuel, no rotation) to stop supplying fuel or oil to any fire; no ‘nearest airstrip’ diversion, just land asap.

[derekliston]

32 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I know a bloke who was on one of  those ships that struggled back with a temporary patch on it. Apparently it was a pretty unnerving event. If there's enough magnesium in it to ignite it would corrode pretty badly in salt water.   Nev

I agree Nev, just remembering what read at the time, that the superstructure was magnesium/aluminium alloy. I was interested because I had a cousin on the Sheffield but thankfully he had transferred out not long before! Sorry no more thread drift from me!!!

[Thruster88]

Whilst every fatal accident is tragic it is important to talk about and learn from them. Mark D mentioned the wagga wagga incident involving smoke in the cockpit, the report below shows how important landing immediately is. (The report was a little hard to find because Wagga Wagga is also know as forest hill aerodrome).

 

It is a very well written account of what actually happened that RAAus did not re write so as to make it totally useless as is often the case with RAAus reports.  

 

  

19/4/2019	OCC1664	Forest Hill Aerodrome	NSW	Jabiru	J120C	Jabiru	2200B	After take-off at 700ft AGL a left turn was initiated. Immediately, there was a toxic smell and smo...
After take-off at 700ft AGL a left turn was initiated. Immediately, there was a toxic smell and smoke in the cockpit. At this moment, with the aircraft needing to dump about 800feet of height NOW!!, The throttle was cut, the turn was pulled tight, full 'top rudder' was applied and the fuel shut-off valve was closed. A diving full slip was carried out, toward the general direction of the departure RWY strip. This was performed at a speed well above normal approach speed, in an attempt to land as quickly as possible. At or before the half way point of the approach, it became difficult to breathe and see due to smoke and flames. The aircraft was rounded out and forced onto the ground at high speed. After heavy braking, the aircraft came to rest on the centre line, facing 320 degrees, at right angles to the RWY direction, about half way along the RWY.The pilot and PAX disembarked the aircraft via the port door. The aircraft was destroyed by the fire. Suspected cause was a leakage from the fuel delivery system, within the engine bay.

[Old Koreelah]

On 19/10/2023 at 9:22 PM, FlyBoy1960 said:

Details released Pilot.  Mervyn Mudge

Just heard that he was a RAAF mate of my brother. His old squadron mates have produced a profile of his fascinating aviation career.

I’ve asked permission to post it here.

[Vick1004]

2 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

Just heard that he was a RAAF mate of my brother. His old squadron mates have produced a profile of his fascinating aviation career.

I’ve asked permission to post it here.

The pilot wasn't just some hobbyist....he did over 20 years in the airforce starting off as an apprentice airframe fitter on the mirages, then he worked his way to become a flight engineer on the C130 H in 36Sq to the rank of Warrant Officer, he then did 10 years as a flight engineer on Boeing 747 for JAL, he did a stint driving trucks in the coal mines in the Hunter Valley, went up to North QLD where he worked for some regional airlines, even did FIFO in PNG, and did a few years as a civilian Safety Officer in the RAN in Cairns.

 

He had great experience in aviation and mechanics ,and he never skinted on safety as he at times would have his grandson flying in the plane with him

[FlyingVizsla]

ATSB has been asked by the Qld Police to inspect the aircraft engine.  The report will go to the Qld Police, and then to the Coroner, so we may not hear the outcome.  I assume the Qld Police are footing the bill.

 

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2024/report/ae-2024-003