Mid-air collision over Port Phillip Bay 19/11/2023

[red750]

Two Viper S-211 Marchetti jets collided over Port Phillip Bay, out from Mt.Martha. There were two persons aboard each aircraft. One made it back to Essendon, and a search is being undertaken for the second aircraft. Some wreckage has been found.

 

Read more here.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

ATC Recording

Edited November 19, 2023 by Roundsounds

[Womble]

Have to say Viper 1 sounds remarkably calm and collected given the situation.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Womble

[SGM]

Very sad.  Some context:  https://www.anyfoolcanfly.com/

[facthunter]

Formation flying is very critical. I actually don't encourage it. You can get through flying careers without ever doing it and not be deficient. I've done some. but it's not essential.  IMHO. Nev

[onetrack]

I was under the impression they were doing an air-to-air photo shoot? Why are we having so many mid-airs involving pilots with outstanding abilities, experience, and huge hours in their logbook? 4 MA's in the last 12 mths? Something is seriously wrong here.

[turboplanner]

10 hours ago, onetrack said:

I was under the impression they were doing an air-to-air photo shoot? Why are we having so many mid-airs involving pilots with outstanding abilities, experience, and huge hours in their logbook? 4 MA's in the last 12 mths? Something is seriously wrong here.

https://www.jetworksaviation.com.au/

Depends what they were shooting; if it was formation and combat the risk with a photographer looking for a better shot, or being caught out with a heavy camera and rapidly changing high G Forces can see the camera getting out of control. From the link it looks like the pilot who went down was trained by the RAAF as an electronics engeineer, not a combat pilot, but too early yet to draw conclusions.

What we do know is that the Chief Commissioner of ATSB, Angus Mitchell, in a TV Interview has said ATSB will be investigating (so it's not going to be written off as aerobatics) and in the list of things they are going to look at are "the people".

 

To complicate matters, if they were filming for a series, the events could be classified as a Workplace Accident, which would bring in a different set of invesitagtions.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by turboplanner

[turboplanner]

10 hours ago, onetrack said:

Why are we having so many mid-airs involving pilots with outstanding abilities, experience, and huge hours in their logbook? 4 MA's in the last 12 mths? Something is seriously wrong here.

Maybe its just a cluster; maybe it's human factors such as one of the paricipants having a radio, but not using it, or not using it correctly, lack of knowledge about circuit approach and circuit procedures?

 

[SGM]

Juan Brown (Blancolirio channel) 
 

 

[onetrack]

The 4 MA's in the last 12 months may be a cluster - but over a 12 month period, I'm not so sure it could be called a cluster. Over a much shorter time frame - Yes.

 

However, operating aircraft is all about following procedures strictly and rigidly, and MA's only occur when failures to adhere to strict procedures, or to understand set or agreed procedures, happen.

For high hour pilots to ignore or fail to follow procedures, resulting in MA's, shows either complacency, or bad habits becoming regular habits.

Either way, there appears to be a serious adverse trend developing, that if not addressed and arrested, can only lead to more MA's.

[facthunter]

While they are a cluster of events involving MA collisions different factors operated with each one. There's strict rules for formating. No If's or but's or maybe's. It will most likely be a while before the final report is available.  Nev

[Roundsounds]

There seems to be an increase in mid air collisions in Australia. The most recent event cannot be treated the same as the other events due to the formation aspect. 
It seems as new technology emerges, so do the number of airprox events. I suspect pilots have lost / not being taught situational awareness skills. 

[turboplanner]

27 minutes ago, Roundsounds said:

There seems to be an increase in mid air collisions in Australia. The most recent event cannot be treated the same as the other events due to the formation aspect. 
It seems as new technology emerges, so do the number of airprox events. I suspect pilots have lost / not being taught situational awareness skills. 

It may also be separated further if the advertised dog fight was in progress. Moorabbin pilots regularly fly over the training area in formation, and there’s usually a formation of Harvard’s going through every Tyabb Airshow, but all further apart than the two S211s shown in the video on the news services.

[cooperplace]

On 20/11/2023 at 3:02 PM, facthunter said:

Formation flying is very critical. I actually don't encourage it. You can get through flying careers without ever doing it and not be deficient.

I agree. I've never done it and don't particularly want to, it looks v risky.

[Carbon Canary]

I captured the image below at a European air show a few years ago. It is NOT photoshopped, although a telephoto lens does tend to compress the distance between objects. Even so, a cold shiver went down my spine when I later studied the image in detail.

 

 

[facthunter]

No room for error.  Nev

[Blueadventures]

1 hour ago, Carbon Canary said:

I captured the image below at a European air show a few years ago. It is NOT photoshopped, although a telephoto lens does tend to compress the distance between objects. Even so, a cold shiver went down my spine when I later studied the image in detail.

 

 

Nice flying; just trying to kiss the stb wing tip trailing edge with the spinner.

 

[spenaroo]

Always liked the fact that thunderbirds 4 tail was painted black when they flew F4's
as it would get covered in soot when slotted behind the lead

[turboplanner]

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2023/report/ao-2023-057

[red750]

I took this photo of the crashed jet at Essendon in May, 2017.

[onetrack]

It seems like the dead pilot starred in a yet-to-be-released documentary titled "Any fool can fly". Yep, seems like there was at least one fool flying that day, and possibly more.

 

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/disaster-and-emergency/moment-two-planes-crashed-mid-air-captured-on-camera-c-13251436

[mkennard]

6 minutes ago, onetrack said:

It seems like the dead pilot starred in a yet-to-be-released documentary titled "Any fool can fly". Yep, seems like there was at least one fool flying that day, and possibly more.

 

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/disaster-and-emergency/moment-two-planes-crashed-mid-air-captured-on-camera-c-13251436

Why do you need to denigrade someone? There could have been a reason we may never know like some sort of distraction or event in the cockpit or the passenger.

[facthunter]

Like a big camera. Nev

[SGM]

ATSB vid released today 

 

[turboplanner]

13 hours ago, mkennard said:

Why do you need to denigrade someone? There could have been a reason we may never know like some sort of distraction or event in the cockpit or the passenger.

I notice a few posts like this one and "we will never know" creep in now and again.

 

One obvious reason is departing from a plan leaving the second pilot uncertain; the other is putting a wing there.

Why that could happen requires a bit more study of available online videos.