Mansfield to licola Victoria

[BrendAn]

Hi . Is there anyone here that has flown from Mansfield to Gippsland via mt skene and licola / Macalister valley.  I have never been past licola and would like to know if it's all tiger country or if there are a few clear areas along the way.

[skippydiesel]

I am sure there will be plenty of advisers BrendAn however I wonder in this age of Google Maps and AFB's, how is it you haven't checked this out for yourself????😎

Edited December 26, 2023 by skippydiesel

[BrendAn]

22 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

I am sure there will be plenty of advisers BrendAn however I wonder in this age of Google Maps and AFB's, how is it you haven't checked this out for yourself????😎

I have been looking, just wanted some firsthand info from someone who has done 

Edited December 26, 2023 by BrendAn

[skippydiesel]

Fair enough.

[BrendAn]

5 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Fair enough.

I don't have any paper charts. All I have here is my mobile phone which makes it hard to read maps due to the crappy old screen.  I am going to go over to Harvey Normans and buy a decent tablet this avo, then these old eyes might be able to see better. Oz runways is bloody hard to see on a small scratched screen.

[RFguy]

suggest Samsung Galaxy Tab 8 Wifi. I got it, pretty good. 64GB I think. dont need a huge amount of memory if  oz runways even with everything downloaded is all mostly it will do (IE you are not goigun to fil it with photos) 

 

[skippydiesel]

Apologise in advance if any offence taken -

 

You "....don't have any paper charts" ?????

 

Perhaps an abundance of caution but I don't fly out of my "home" range without paper charts (with notated planned track drawn in), OzRunways, two separate GPS systems (the last 3 with their own battery backup).

 

Paper charts give me a wider perspective of where I am and the geographic/ man made features around me, than the electronic wizardry can ever hope to do.

OzRunways assures me I am on track, 10 mile ring helps with timely radio calls, has a poor man's weather/aircraft radar, backs up other devices' relating to alt/ground speed - etc etc, etc

Handheld GPS (in holder) acts as a directional gyro (& lots of other capabilities), with added information, as above & has a handy "go to nearest" airfield function that I like

Panel EFB  has second by second directional information as well as all the aircraft performance information.

 

The above meets my "comfort" needs, may be over the top but I have yet to be lost  (treat in store😈)

[facthunter]

I haven't tackled straight through that area as I've always chosen  to go either north or south of it.(best)  There's been a lot of rain through there lately. Nev

[skippydiesel]

Just Googled your proposed route - looks to  be solid Tiger Country from NW entry to Macalister Valley to N Licola.

There appears to be safer (more open country) to the south west.

What sort of aircraft will you be in?

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, RFguy said:

suggest Samsung Galaxy Tab 8 Wifi. I got it, pretty good. 64GB I think. dont need a huge amount of memory if  oz runways even with everything downloaded is all mostly it will do (IE you are not goigun to fil it with photos) 

 

Thanks rf, but I just bought a Nokia T20 64 GB because it can take a Sim card as well.

[BrendAn]

46 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Apologise in advance if any offence taken -

 

You "....don't have any paper charts" ?????

 

Perhaps an abundance of caution but I don't fly out of my "home" range without paper charts (with notated planned track drawn in), OzRunways, two separate GPS systems (the last 3 with their own battery backup).

 

Paper charts give me a wider perspective of where I am and the geographic/ man made features around me, than the electronic wizardry can ever hope to do.

OzRunways assures me I am on track, 10 mile ring helps with timely radio calls, has a poor man's weather/aircraft radar, backs up other devices' relating to alt/ground speed - etc etc, etc

Handheld GPS (in holder) acts as a directional gyro (& lots of other capabilities), with added information, as above & has a handy "go to nearest" airfield function that I like

Panel EFB  has second by second directional information as well as all the aircraft performance information.

 

The above meets my "comfort" needs, may be over the top but I have yet to be lost  (treat in store😈)

No offence taken . I haven't bought any charts yet because I haven't got to the cross country stage yet. But when I do I want to fly up to NSW. The safe way is sale to Lilydale then the Kilmore gap . Paddocks under you that way. The Macalister valley has flat paddocks along the river all the way to licola and that's as far as I have been. 

Only flying an xair so can land in pretty small space if I had too.

Edited December 26, 2023 by BrendAn

[turboplanner]

50 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

No offence taken . I haven't bought any charts yet because I haven't got to the cross country stage yet. But when I do I want to fly up to NSW. The safe way is sale to Lilydale then the Kilmore gap . Paddocks under you that way. The Macalister valley has flat paddocks along the river all the way to licola and that's as far as I have been. 

Only flying an xair so can land in pretty small space if I had too.

 

Sale - Melbourne - Lilydale - Kilmore Gap

I think the Dandenong Ranges will be too high to get past to the north of them, so pretty much along the Princes Highway; in on the low alt to the south and west of the Dandenongs  maybe bypass Lilydale if you don't need to go there and use Silvan Reservoir.

Then be ready to turn around at Kilmore Gap ( airfield nearby to sit out weather. From there north it's a dream west of the Great divide).

Note that on the charts the lowest colour can be 0' to 600'! ground level.

 

Possible Route but Calm conditions, No Cloud (Route you mentioned)

I'd get in the car and drive the route up the valleys. You only have to do it once and you'll pick up some cables, but mostly see potential landing paddocks.

You don't have to fly down in the valley, but you do have to be high enough to glide over the typically impenetrable Mountain Ash to the next paddocks, making an instant decision (like an EFATO). some of those trees are 300 feet high.

The drive will pretty much tell you if it's feasible. We were just discussing a fatal where, in theory if the pilot had researched the route he would have known he had a visual reference all the way down.

 

 

 

[Bosi72]

20 hours ago, BrendAn said:

Hi . Is there anyone here that has flown from Mansfield to Gippsland via mt skene and licola / Macalister valley.  I have never been past licola and would like to know if it's all tiger country or if there are a few clear areas along the way.

I picked stable high pressure day, with light winds as I know how the mountain wave sounds from the ground. The "clear" areas are usually filled with fallen trees and they are not "soft". Fly high (8500ft) and close to Jamieson Licola rd.

[BrendAn]

10 minutes ago, Bosi72 said:

I picked stable high pressure day, with light winds as I know how the mountain wave sounds from the ground. The "clear" areas are usually filled with fallen trees and they are not "soft". Fly high (8500ft) and close to Jamieson Licola rd.

Thanks .  Worked out it's about an hour or so longer to go down the highway and through the Kilmore gap.  I am working on 65 knots, can only do 80 at high cruise. 

 

[Bosi72]

43 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Thanks .  Worked out it's about an hour or so longer to go down the highway and through the Kilmore gap.  I am working on 65 knots, can only do 80 at high cruise. 

 

I usually go throgh Glenburn gap (GBR), plenty of options, but Kilmore would do the job too. 

[walrus]

1. This is real tiger country, if you crash here, we may never find the wreckage.

 

The weather is your enemy because you are using a slow machine. Furthermore, going from Mansfield to Gippsland you will encounter at least TWO separate weather systems, maybe more; for example hot inland concditiond with turbulence around Mansfield, a seabreeze front on a Gippsland afternoon and thunderstorms over the ranges where some mixing occurs. Then there is sea fog (yesterday around Portsea) and smoke, haze and dust north of the ranges.........and that is all on a settled day.

 

Now if you are in some sort of bullet like a Cirrus or Bonanza, you just need a short window. You can get high enough 9500 - 10000 to pretty much see the whole route. Furthermore, at 160+ knots, a 10 knot seabreeze sprining up or a thirty km diversion around a thunderstorm is no big deal, plus you have an autopilot and excellent navigation gear.

 

BUt you are only doing 65 knots aren't you? That means a ten knot seabreeze can ruin your day and forget about 30 mile diversions, you dont have time or fuel so your route planning needs to be very different and by the way, dont forget density altitude;  if you have to land some where high you will be walking home. The advantage? At 65kmots its prettyy hard to inadvertantly go from VFR into IMC.

 

My bugsmasher is somewhat in the middle. What I would do is treat such a project as an adventure with very wide time frames and a very flexible itinerary - like the old sailing ships - they never contracted to go for example "Melbourne to Sydney", the contracts specified they were going "from Melbourne in the direction of Sydney".

 

Now if you can set out with an open mind about where and when you might end up, plan your trip as a succession of small stages that only nibble at tiger country with go/nogo points between them and lots of alternates you will have a wonderful tme. Just dont get caught on one side of the range with a long slow trip home in darkening weather.

 

 

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, walrus said:

1. This is real tiger country, if you crash here, we may never find the wreckage.

 

The weather is your enemy because you are using a slow machine. Furthermore, going from Mansfield to Gippsland you will encounter at least TWO separate weather systems, maybe more; for example hot inland concditiond with turbulence around Mansfield, a seabreeze front on a Gippsland afternoon and thunderstorms over the ranges where some mixing occurs. Then there is sea fog (yesterday around Portsea) and smoke, haze and dust north of the ranges.........and that is all on a settled day.

 

Now if you are in some sort of bullet like a Cirrus or Bonanza, you just need a short window. You can get high enough 9500 - 10000 to pretty much see the whole route. Furthermore, at 160+ knots, a 10 knot seabreeze sprining up or a thirty km diversion around a thunderstorm is no big deal, plus you have an autopilot and excellent navigation gear.

 

BUt you are only doing 65 knots aren't you? That means a ten knot seabreeze can ruin your day and forget about 30 mile diversions, you dont have time or fuel so your route planning needs to be very different and by the way, dont forget density altitude;  if you have to land some where high you will be walking home. The advantage? At 65kmots its prettyy hard to inadvertantly go from VFR into IMC.

 

My bugsmasher is somewhat in the middle. What I would do is treat such a project as an adventure with very wide time frames and a very flexible itinerary - like the old sailing ships - they never contracted to go for example "Melbourne to Sydney", the contracts specified they were going "from Melbourne in the direction of Sydney".

 

Now if you can set out with an open mind about where and when you might end up, plan your trip as a succession of small stages that only nibble at tiger country with go/nogo points between them and lots of alternates you will have a wonderful tme. Just dont get caught on one side of the range with a long slow trip home in darkening weather.

 

 

 

On 26/12/2023 at 3:46 PM, skippydiesel said:

Apologise in advance if any offence taken -

 

You "....don't have any paper charts" ?????

 

Perhaps an abundance of caution but I don't fly out of my "home" range without paper charts (with notated planned track drawn in), OzRunways, two separate GPS systems (the last 3 with their own battery backup).

 

Paper charts give me a wider perspective of where I am and the geographic/ man made features around me, than the electronic wizardry can ever hope to do.

OzRunways assures me I am on track, 10 mile ring helps with timely radio calls, has a poor man's weather/aircraft radar, backs up other devices' relating to alt/ground speed - etc etc, etc

Handheld GPS (in holder) acts as a directional gyro (& lots of other capabilities), with added information, as above & has a handy "go to nearest" airfield function that I like

Panel EFB  has second by second directional information as well as all the aircraft performance information.

 

The above meets my "comfort" needs, may be over the top but I have yet to be lost  (treat in store😈)

How do you fit all that in a sonex. You realise I am vfr. What's wrong with ifr. I follow roads 😁. But you were  right, I should have just kept to myself and not ask on here.

Edited December 28, 2023 by BrendAn

[onetrack]

You asked for advice, you got given good, comprehensive advice - but because it's not what you wanted to hear, you reckon it's a waste of time asking?

I hope you don't just end up an aviation statistic, because you knew better than any good aviating advice?

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

You asked for advice, you got given good, comprehensive advice - but because it's not what you wanted to hear, you reckon it's a waste of time asking?

I hope you don't just end up an aviation statistic, because you knew better than any good aviating advice?

You didn't read my question either.

Thank you.

Edited December 28, 2023 by BrendAn

[Thruster88]

On 26/12/2023 at 1:21 PM, BrendAn said:

Hi . Is there anyone here that has flown from Mansfield to Gippsland via mt skene and licola / Macalister valley.  I have never been past licola and would like to know if it's all tiger country or if there are a few clear areas along the way.

Looking on Google there are no clear areas. Even the road is not accessible for a stol aircraft like a thruster. It would be a beautiful fly if the engine keeps running... A BRZ is the machine for that route, planning is in progress 😁.

[turboplanner]

7 hours ago, BrendAn said:

 

How do you fit all that in a sonex. You realise I am vfr. What's wrong with ifr. I follow roads 😁. But you were  right, I should have just kept to myself and not ask on here.

That's what a lot of people do and we read about the decisions they made and the decisions they should have made.

At this stage of training there's nothing wrong with looking ahead, but a lot wrong with going on a social media site where plenty of people justy absentmindely scrawl without any care at all, and sometimes only with knowledge gleaned from You Tube.  Anyone who proceeds to Nav training, and actually does the training on P&O, Met and the other applicable subjects will know that naviagting and aircraft from point A to Point B involves a lot more than jumping into the Land Cruiser with half a tank of fuel and hitting the mountains.  

[turboplanner]

9 hours ago, walrus said:

BUt you are only doing 65 knots aren't you? That means a ten knot seabreeze can ruin your day and forget about 30 mile diversions, you dont have time or fuel so your route planning needs to be very different.

This is probably the biggest difference between Rag & Tube and the 100 kt aircraft.

A 30 kt headwind and you're doing half your planned speed and don't have the endurance to get to your planned destination let alone any Alternates, so you need a Flight Plan full of Alternates in different directions

 

When ther's a Fly In and breakfast, you'll often read that 2 or more had to turn around and go home due to head winds.

 

On the other hand a few have flown right around Australia, crossed Australia from West to East, at least one lucky one has got to New Zealand, and a few, also luck made it to Tasmania.

 

Most of these people (on the mainland) had a ground crew so they could make up time on adverse days by towing it at 100 km/hr by car.

 

 

 

[RFguy]

Brendan, probably worthwhile doing some reading up on doing minimum radius valley turns. It is something a slow machine does well, AND  there are techniques you can use to tighten up the turn (advanced) . Good to read up on it all anyway, approach, in, and exit. 

 Practice in free space up high. 

[prwood]

Brendan, you quoted speed of 65kts with high cruise of 80kts. I had an X-air standard with a 618 for 10 years. The cruise speed was around 55-60kts. No way could we get 80kts. The X-air stated cruise is 54kts & a max speed of 65kts with VNE 82kts

[skippydiesel]

Ooooh! Prwood  - not sure it's quite the done thing, to call out someones performance claims😈

He probably has all sorts of high speed enhancements 😎