Selling An Aircraft

[walrus]

I am planning to sell my pride and joy. What is the best way to go about it? What should I avoid?

[facthunter]

Tyre Kickers?   I really don't know and Have sold 3 of mine over the years. I never got what I thought they were worth.   Nev

[onetrack]

Be firm with people who are going to stuff you around, saying they'll take it, and then not putting down a deposit. If someone wants it, they need to back their talk with a CASH or a BANK TRANSFER, NON-REFUNDABLE, deposit.

It's not sold until money changes hands. Don't rely on verbal agreements. Write up a sales agreement that covers everything that might go wrong.

It doesn't need to be a 50 page agreement drawn up by a lawyer - just a simple handwritten agreement has authority in court, if major problems develop.

Ensure the description is accurate, that buyer has made himself/herself aware of all faults in the machine. Itemise the sale amount, the date, any terms such as deposit amount and when the balance is strictly due, specific sale conditions, if anything is included, or not included - and of course, both buyer and seller sign the document, and each gets a copy.

If you make the deposit non-refundable, you're covering yourself from losses of a sale to other potential buyers, who you missed out on, while the non-performing buyer was stuffing you around.

If a potential buyer makes an appointment to check it out, make yourself readily available - and don't put up with no-shows, and dreamers who want to talk about pricing without inspection.

[skippydiesel]

Too complicated Onetrack - Sales agreement, 1/2 to a full page no more - must contain words to the effect  of "purchased as is where is". Copes signed, dated by both parties.

I would advise against listing any defects - If asked, verbally advise if you wish. If you make a list & miss something, this could be reason to seek a refund/claim against you.

Do not make any false claims regarding condition, performance - if untrue these could be held against you.

It is up to the purchaser to do his/her research, ask informed questions or have someone (broker) do it for them. It is not your job to lay your sole bare.

There are no inclusion unless you list something, it's in a sales photo etc, so headsets/handheld equipment, Biggles goggles etc  will only be sold with the aircraft if you agree to do so, make them part of the sales promotion.

There can be no exclusion that render the aircraft unsafe/illegal to fly unless you are selling it as such eg damaged OR as part of the bargaining process where the two parties agree to remove a trivial (no effect on safety or legality) item, to reduce the total purchase price (underwing air to air missiles)

Do not let your aircraft go, hand over keys, documents, etc until full payment received. 

Non refundable deposits must be a fair reflection of the total value agreed to eg $ 150K aircraft, I think about $10K non refundable deposit sounds fair.

Have the purchaser sign a document, agreeing to the deposit being non refundable, if the purchase does not proceed (if the seller pulls out this may not be enforceable).

Deposits are an expression of intersted,  not ownership, but may confer the right to purchase at a later time,  so set a deadline - ie full payment by midnight on date or the aircraft goes back up for open  sale?

 

Personally I would not complicate a sale by demanding a deposit - purchase outright or not at all - first to meet your price gets the bird.

[Area-51]

I had my lawyer draft a standard single page purchase agreement when I purchased my AC. It provided clarity toward who was selling, who was purchasing, agreed price, AC details, clear title free of liens, encumbrances, liabilities, claims; AC condition and inspections undertaken prior to purchase, additional items, spares, log books, ancillary equipment etc, dates, signatures.

 

The AC was due for its Annual so I had it flown to a LAME of my choice and offered to pay for the annual regardless of my final decision to purchase or not. Drove down to where the AC was, and went for a fly with owner after going over LAME's report. Got flown back down three weeks later after funds had cleared and conditions were good; filled up the tank, took off, circled overhead once for clear offs, flew home.

 

If somebody requests an inspection, if they are serious, it would be fair to expect them to offer to also pay for it. If they kick up a stink and expect you to pay for it then its probably not the right AC for them.

 

[spacesailor]

Is the " aircraft auction " on this sight going ahead .

spacesailor

[440032]

I dread dealing with tyre kickers and assorted nupties.

I had a call about mine and within thirty seconds I told them sorry, it's no longer for sale. (Bogan alert went off)

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Have sold three, and can recommend using an agent like Light Aircraft Sales. Not expensive for the hassles avoided.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, pmccarthy said:

Have sold three, and can recommend using an agent like Light Aircraft Sales. Not expensive for the hassles avoided.

Brokers/Agents, may seem like a perfect solution for the seller but in my case a nightmare for the potential purchaser -  Only had the one experince, a caricature of a bit like a really bad second hand car sales person put me off sales agents for ever. 

[KRviator]

2 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

Have sold three, and can recommend using an agent like Light Aircraft Sales. Not expensive for the hassles avoided.

No - NO - and #&$(% NO! 

While my search for the right 4-seater continues, I've had no end of problems communicating with brokers (though in the spirit of transparency, NC at LAS was by far, the best one...), but I've found brokers are typically useless at knowing the full details buyers want from the outset, and all that does is piss me off and shoo me away when they have to play ping-pong with the owner to get those details and then get back to me. I'm still waiting (after 2 months) for OH details of the prop fitted to a C205 that's still listed for sale, though with only 9HTR on the prop. If it can be overhauled, then fine, if it's been OH'd several times previously, it may be end-of-life so there's another $30K I need to factor in to the price. Does the broker care? Apparently not...Seller doesn't seem to be too concerned either, or they'd be pushing the broker to follow me up.

 

Granted they insulate you from tyre-kickers, but I'd simply put an email down as your first point of contact, so you can reply in your own time. If, after several emails, you feel they're genuine, you can progress to voice calls. If not, add them to the spam folder.

As part of the sale, I'd recommend you also do up a runout sheet showing the time remaining for various components and a detailed equipment list. This isn't such a huge thing if you're selling a Drifter, but if it's an RV-8 with G3X and autopilot, then it's something I'd want to see. Include that in your ad to save me as a buyer asking for it - and if you do decide to go with a broker, it can make their life easier as your spec sheet is already uploaded to the ad or ad text so there's not as much to-and-fro to get answers to buyers questions.

If I'm spending north of $100K on anything I expect my questions to be answered promptly. If a broker can't - or won't - do that, there's always another opportunity, it just might take a bit longer, and that's the problem you face as a seller if you go through a broker. DIY'ing it leaves the ball in your hands, you're not reliant on anyone else.

[skippydiesel]

20 hours ago, Area-51 said:

I had my lawyer draft a standard single page purchase agreement when I purchased my AC. It provided clarity toward who was selling, who was purchasing, agreed price, AC details, clear title free of liens, encumbrances, liabilities, claims; AC condition and inspections undertaken prior to purchase, additional items, spares, log books, ancillary equipment etc, dates, signatures.

 

The AC was due for its Annual so I had it flown to a LAME of my choice and offered to pay for the annual regardless of my final decision to purchase or not. Drove down to where the AC was, and went for a fly with owner after going over LAME's report. Got flown back down three weeks later after funds had cleared and conditions were good; filled up the tank, took off, circled overhead once for clear offs, flew home.

 

If somebody requests an inspection, if they are serious, it would be fair to expect them to offer to also pay for it. If they kick up a stink and expect you to pay for it then its probably not the right AC for them.

 

Lawyers are not required but if it makes you feel good go for it. Too many people overthink the sellin/purchase of an aircraft (car/significant asset).

Log books must go with the aircraft.

Spares may be sold separately, with the aircraft or be a sweetener ie thrown in to clinch the deal.

Ancillary equipment - as above

I agree with a sales document that has a statement regarding title - you don't want to purchase an asset you will owe money on or that actually belongs to someone else (not the seller).

Pre Purchase inspections are always at the purchaser's expense (nuts if they don't do one) and should be facilitated (within reason) by the seller.

Pre-Purchase flight with seller/instructor/other acceptable pilot, also should be facilitated and where appropriate (instructors time/fees) paid for by the purchaser. 

[FlyingVizsla]

The son put our plane on Facebook Market Place and referred all enquiries to us.  We weren't ready to sell, but heaps of enquiries.  It hasn't sold.  Be wary of the guy who wants to buy without inspection for full price - not sure what the scam is, but spending $10s of thousands on the basis of two pictures is suss.

 

Ask a few questions, if you're not in a rush, relegate the "tyre kickers" to a date suitable to you.  Ours was a RAAus taildragger - yet we got "going to learn soon..." No tailwheel endorsement, Helicopter pilot, "my brother is good on the tools (reseller), the guy who rings regularly to check that it hasn't been sold and to offer even less than last time and trying to do "deals" - we know he is a reseller.  Even people who have no interest in flying but think they could make $$ out of parting out or tarting up.  Mr FV was livid when his old car he sold to an "enthusiast" was on FB within the week for $10k more.

 

Our best outcome was through the Classies on this forum.  Someone saw the Sonerai and mentioned it on a group dedicated to that make and it had 3 firm buyers, but one got in ahead with a larger offer, paid then picked up.  So steer clear of generalised selling platforms - Gumtree, FB etc.

[Neil_S]

1 hour ago, FlyingVizsla said:

The son put our plane on Facebook Market Place and referred all enquiries to us.  We weren't ready to sell, but heaps of enquiries.  It hasn't sold.  Be wary of the guy who wants to buy without inspection for full price - not sure what the scam is, but spending $10s of thousands on the basis of two pictures is suss.

 

Ask a few questions, if you're not in a rush, relegate the "tyre kickers" to a date suitable to you.  Ours was a RAAus taildragger - yet we got "going to learn soon..." No tailwheel endorsement, Helicopter pilot, "my brother is good on the tools (reseller), the guy who rings regularly to check that it hasn't been sold and to offer even less than last time and trying to do "deals" - we know he is a reseller.  Even people who have no interest in flying but think they could make $$ out of parting out or tarting up.  Mr FV was livid when his old car he sold to an "enthusiast" was on FB within the week for $10k more.

 

Our best outcome was through the Classies on this forum.  Someone saw the Sonerai and mentioned it on a group dedicated to that make and it had 3 firm buyers, but one got in ahead with a larger offer, paid then picked up.  So steer clear of generalised selling platforms - Gumtree, FB etc.

I would echo your advice to steer clear of Facebook Marketplace - I was looking for a small trailer and replied to an ad for one. The first thing the guy did was ask for my mobile number so he could call to arrange for me to view it. Never heard from him again. Called Telstra to get them to block any attempt to port/transfer my number and the lady also said to avoid FB Marketplace as full of scammers. 

 

Cheers,

Neil

[facthunter]

"aviation trader" is still being delivered to me. Must have a wide scope.  There's a lot of "guests" that go through THIS SITE . Nev

[spacesailor]

I'm going to have to sell a Pegasus  582 trike . with-out paper work .

As I cannot lift anything with the right arm . busted after tripping on a pothole .

Needs a new ' pusher ' prop .  AND , all that Bureaucrocracy that I can't manage

spacesailor 

 

[Possum1]

Nobody has mentioned planesales.com.au. I found this excellent value for money and got many strong and interested enquiries and one solid buyer with a 10% deposit on the same day he viewed the logbook photos of the last 5 years which I sent him. I had many genuine enquires to fall back on if this sale did not proceed. It did proceed, and at my asking price.

[Thruster88]

I will also recommend 

Buy an aircraft by searching Plane Sales Australias aircraft marketplace

WWW.PLANESALES.COM.AU

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Search and Buy Used or New Aircraft for sale by using Australia's best aircraft marketplace

Recently sold aircraft for a friend using plane sales, had very good enquiry and was sold in less than two weeks.

They have the best simple website that works.  

[KRviator]

Except PS will block you from viewing their FB profile (and their for-sale posts they do) if you dare to ask too many curly questions about their listings...It may well be the vendor's who are supplying such info, but PS don't appear to be too proactive in vetting such info, or like being questioned.

That being said, they do have a good and easy to use website!