The Gender Balance

[Guest Qwerty]

[quote=BecM;158920......... I do not think that we can make generalisations.......

 

Bec

 

I agree with you Bec but I am afraid that your statement about generalizations is a generalization and therefore dis-allows its self.

 

Qwerty:black_eye::ne_nau:

 

 

[BecM]

Qwerty stop being literal!!

 

 

Fly safe

 

Bec

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

I am involved with Australian Women Pilots Association and I am Secretary of the Local Group of Engineers Australia - another profession that had about 4% women. That group researched why women didn't like engineering - they saw it as dirty, so the clean orange vest white hard hat, roll of white paper became the uniform of the young engineer in our advertising. Anna Bligh (love her or hate her) has done wonders by turning up on construction sites in all the clobber. Boot manufacturers now make fashionable steel caps, the salary is roughly the same for male / female and it is pretty good. Females are now over 10%, but we are still losing older women (my vintage) only 15% of us are left - the rest changed career or dropped out. I guess that is because the older men gave us a hard time and women may have done family and not returned.

 

Now look at flying - dirty, smelly, oil grease avgas - at least that's how it was - an ancient Cessna, drack upholstery, smelling of ringer's armpits, instrument panel warped, holes where things should have been etc. Now we have those magic new aircraft that look sleek and I think girls relate to that better. I wasn't taken by flying - it was a way of getting from A to B quickly but later it grew on me and I will occasionally fly just for the fun of it. As a career the salary isn't great and there's still 'discrimination' in smaller companies, but I think we are picking up momentum with women in aviation - especially those with a larger disposable income who can use it as a 'sport' or adjunct to career or business.

 

Sue

 

 

[Mazda]

I'm not so sure about that. The majority of horse riders are girls and that is a pretty dirty smelly sport.

 

Maybe it just isn't considered as an option? Parents might think of taking daughters to a riding school, music lessons, ballet, netball, but they may not think of going to the airport for flying lessons.

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

Qwerty stop being literal!!

 

Fly safe

 

Bec

Sorry Bec, can't be done, I'm hard wired that way.

 

There are evolutionary reasons why there is a male/female divide and no amount of advertising, spin, equal opportunities or anything else is ever going to change it. It is a fact of life, just get used to it.

 

There is of course no excuse for discriminating or excluding anyone from anything based on their sex. On this basis I demand to be included on the womens netball squad.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

On this basis I demand to be included on the womens netball squad.

I'm sure you'd look just smashing in the little netball skirt

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

Why thankyou Darky

 

 

[BecM]

Sorry Bec, can't be done, I'm hard wired that way.There are evolutionary reasons why there is a male/female divide and no amount of advertising, spin, equal opportunities or anything else is ever going to change it. It is a fact of life, just get used to it.

 

There is of course no excuse for discriminating or excluding anyone from anything based on their sex. On this basis I demand to be included on the womens netball squad.

I have in fact played netball with a guy on the team and DAMN he was good...

 

Fly safe

 

Bec

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

And shave your legs (less drag (aviation term - see Ian, we're on topic))

 

 

[Tomo]

I have in fact played netball with a guy on the team and DAMN he was good...

I guess he Stands a Hero ! ?

 

 

[BecM]

And shave your legs (less drag (aviation term - see Ian, we're on topic))

Or more ...

 

 

[BecM]

I guess he Stands a Hero ! ?

Nope he is too tall and lanky to play netball.... He umpires football instead.. well in winter.. plays lawn bowls in summer.. go figure

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Hey Mazda, I'm glad that your referal to women and horses wasn't taken up as this mad bunch would have taken it waaay out of bounds. :mulie:

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

I'm not so sure about that. The majority of horse riders are girls and that is a pretty dirty smelly sport.Maybe it just isn't considered as an option? Parents might think of taking daughters to a riding school, music lessons, ballet, netball, but they may not think of going to the airport for flying lessons.

Girls wanting ponies is somewhat hardwired, parents don't take them there with pleas of "Why don't you try riding?" It is usually nagging by child that ends with ridding school and pony. I guess girls are looking for something to love and care for - if it smells they enjoy mucking out, washing the beast, brushing, grooming.

 

Australian Women Pilots Assoc have been pushing programs in schools, careers booklets, scholarships, to encourage girls to consider aviation careers.

 

Back when I got my licence kids were not brought in by parents for tuition. Students were either young workers, older blokes returning to flying or had been flying on the family farm and now wanted a proper licence so they were legal.

 

Women weren't queing up either. I was the first female at the flying school. I became involved with the school for a few years providing aircraft, accommodation, mentoring, tutoring, bookkeeping etc. We had a few more women start, but none finished the ppl.

 

Going forward to a RAAus school, I was the only active female member (and therefore got to do all the catering, bookwork, newletter, treasurer, like work). There were women who won a TIF, or started lessons, but none who finished. Our instructor's personal hygiene left a bit to be desired and the plane was usually a mess, something our guys seemed to accept, but our women didn't.

 

Women were looking at aviation as a quick convenient way from A to B, blokes were looking for thrills and machines. I know I have used a very wide brush, but that's my general observation. Now back then, instructors, planes and clubs catered for what the blokes wanted, so the cowls were usually off, the guys were, tinnies in hand, spruiking about ECG, gascolators, cylinders and how I nearly bought the farm. They would take the plane up after work to "throw it around" for thrills and to show off to girls in town.

 

Now I think those serious about an airline career go straight to Uni. I don't know what the numbers are like, but I hear a lot more women studying.

 

I'm not sure what our present male/female ratio is in GA and RAAus, but if I find out I'll post it here.

 

Sue

 

 

[facthunter]

Summary.

 

Pretty good summaton Sue. In my early days I got involved with some training of three. One went on to be a flying instructor, but I heard that later after quite a few years and confrontations with CASA that she had gone and had babies like many do. Don't think the other two finished the ppl. I must confess that I have no idea why women want to fly and just a few ideas why they don't.

 

At the re-union of the Broadmeadow pilots of the Royal Newcastle Aero Club, (these are the ones that flew out of the somewhat dimunitive aerodrome at Dictrict Park) there was a group of "senior Ladies", who appeared to be of particularly independent spirit They seemed to be different from the average, and it sort of showed. I have met a lot of people whose mothers flew Tiger Moths. (surprisingly quite a few). This would have been expensive and more difficult than today.

 

I would like to see more take it up. Women can have a more civilizing influence on a group. They don't seem to be as fascinated by the nuts and bolts of the plane as the blokes are and I reckon there might be some "put-offs" out there too for them that they would just have to ignore. They are usually expected to "wait on" the men a little more than is reasonable. (I generalise here, as I hope it is not widespread). Nev

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

I must confess that I have no idea why women want to fly and just a few ideas why they don't.

We fly for the same reason men do, because we love it.

 

 

[flightygirl]

i just spotted this thread... and thought i'd way in.... as you are all probably aware by my rapid progression from being unable to land to licence, i am addicted to flying... was the only little girl i knew who said i wanted to be an astronaut. i have always loved aircraft, loved going to airports, watching planes fly overhead, i got my first TIF for my 30th birthday (late starter), then was instantly addicted. started learning to fly in a cessna... but couldnt afford to keep going as i was still at uni. its now 10 years later and i am now lucky enough to be in a position to fly whenever i want, which is all the time. i just love it! my oldest daughter is 17 and she plans to do an aviation degree next year and is looking forward to learning to fly also. so im doing my bit to get more females in! i have another daughter im working on now also... she is 12 and havent been able to convince her yet. if i could change my career path to being a full time pilot and still earn the dollars i would do it in a heart beat.

 

i live eat sleep breath flying right now... and im driving my friends crazy. on the subject of friends and flying.. its the male friends who are keen to go up with me... the female ones either say "no way" or politely say "maybe sometime" . (could be to do with my flying...)i think we are just hard wired differently.

 

Rach

 

 

[Tomo]

its the male friends who are keen to go up with me... the female ones either say "no way" or politely say "maybe sometime" . (could be to do with my flying...)i think we are just hard wired differently.

And if you were male, it would be all the females that want to go up... Hard wired different all right - not a bad thing I s'pose :big_grin: ;)

 

 

[flightygirl]

I did warn him thought that the only thing he really need worry about is the chance of becoming hopelessly addicted to the most personal form of recreational aviation.

 

somebody should have warned me about that! i need an FA (flying anonymous)! my instructor says i have a problem.

 

my name is Rachael and im a flyaholic. :big_grin:

 

 

[Ian Sugden]

Maybe someone will do a poll on who does the grocery shopping ............aghhhhh!!!!

 

Neither my wife or I do it, neither do our girls, of which coincidentally, one holds a PPL and the other is going to do her RAA certificate when she returns from overseas. My wife, is going to do whatever it is you do to become a safety pilot even though she's flown with me for 35yrs.

 

Go girls, you rock.

 

Iani_dunno

 

 

[johndl]

I encourage my grade 6 students by teaching an aviation unit to them each year. We make model planes, test them etc. and learn about the history of powered flight. This year I am taking them to Georgetown for a flight in the Jabs! The girls are just as interested as the boys which is good. I keep telling the girls that they would make great pilots, as they are fast learners!

 

 

[johndl]

What a great idea johndl!!!If we had G6 kids around Oz going to their local RAA airfield imagine the "explosion"in student numbers in years to come.

 

Well done.

There is an added surprise though - the kids have to fill out a 20 question worksheet during the excursion, and then they are entered into a draw for a free TIF (which I am paying for).

 

 

[Tomo]

There is an added surprise though - the kids have to fill out a 20 question worksheet during the excursion, and then they are entered into a draw for a free TIF (which I am paying for).

That's awesome John, I'm trying to work something up too for a school excursion. Bit hard now I'm not at school, but I'm still thinking about it. :big_grin:

 

 

[johndl]

That's awesome John, I'm trying to work something up too for a school excursion. Bit hard now I'm not at school, but I'm still thinking about it. :big_grin:

lol All we need now is a fine day! Aren't too many of those in Tassie in July/August! The kids are REALLY keen though:big_grin:

 

 

[J170 Owner]

Perhaps (here we go, being sexist again) flying is just more of a 'blokey' thing? A bit like (say) riding a Harley. One of my instructors in the early 80s was a woman (still is I guess) and when I got into flying the Jabs, one of my instructors was (and still is) a woman. We could ask the question "Why is quilting a female dominated past time?" Some things are 'girly' and some 'blokey'. All the political correctness goons in the world cannot argue with that.