Unintentional Stalls

[cscotthendry]

Have you ever accidently / unintentionall / inadvertently flown into a stall?

If yes, can you post what happened.

[facthunter]

You might get more if it could be done Post Humorously.?

 

 

 

 

 Sorry .Just couldn't help it. Nev

[rgmwa]

Most of the potential `yes' respondents may not be able to.

[sfGnome]

I said no, because I don’t *know* that I flew into a stall. There was one time in my early days - an ugly, gusty day - when as I was turning to crosswind from the takeoff, I hit what I assumed was a strong gust that put the aircraft on its side (or so it felt). My instructor took control, recovered, and we decided that it wasn’t a good day for learning…

 

Maybe it was just a gust blowing us around. Maybe it was a wind speed change that turned my climbing power-on turn into a climbing power-on stall at 500 ft? Who knows?

[facthunter]

A wind change can do that. I've had it three times and it can be  very difficult to handle requiring all your skills, plus a it of luck. Each one was very different the way it presented .    Nev  

[Roundsounds]

I have stalled many, many times during aerobatics. Both nibbling on the edge and occasionally departing controlled flight. This is all at a safe altitude and mostly in aerobatic aeroplanes. I did years of competition flying, which included streamer cutting in a range of aeroplanes. I recall a most spectacular event in a Cessna 180 at Moruya, I think it frightened the daylights out of the safety pilot! Trying to claw around a 60 bank turn at minimum speed to reduce the turn radius and got a bit enthusiastic. No big deal, simply neutralise the ailerons, stop any yaw with rudder, reduce the angle of attack and recover from the ensuing dive. 
It’s the playing around the edges of the stall in a safe place that helps you recognise what’s close to a stall and safe versus “this is likely to let go”. You don’t really know that point for a particular aeroplane unless you do that type of exercise. Again I stress at a safe height and if you’re not qualified / proficient in aerobatics have an instructor with you who is proficient and happy to let you explore that end of the flight envelope.   
 

anyone who hasn’t done this type of flying is an accident looking for the right time to happen. 

Edited February 22 by Roundsounds

[Roundsounds]

14 hours ago, sfGnome said:

I said no, because I don’t *know* that I flew into a stall. There was one time in my early days - an ugly, gusty day - when as I was turning to crosswind from the takeoff, I hit what I assumed was a strong gust that put the aircraft on its side (or so it felt). My instructor took control, recovered, and we decided that it wasn’t a good day for learning…

 

Maybe it was just a gust blowing us around. Maybe it was a wind speed change that turned my climbing power-on turn into a climbing power-on stall at 500 ft? Who knows?

Sadly a very valuable lost learning opportunity if the instructor didn’t take the time to explain what had happened. Maybe they didn’t know what had happened? It’s worth flying for a bit on days like that to help you become comfortable, one day you might be caught out in them. Even to become comfortable with the stall warning intermittently showing / sounding. A gusty day will often cause a temporary high AoA and trigger a warning, it doesn’t mean you’ve stalled. Knowing what’s acceptable and adding 20 knots to the approach speed isn’t necessarily the answer. 

Edited February 22 by Roundsounds

[LoonyBob]

Gliding in a small thermal, the inner wing nibbles the edge of stall a lot; but one never allows it to develop, for a stall decreases the rate of climb!

 

I have had the fun of flying a T83 into strong rotor (off an adjacent hill) about 500m short of the airstrip threshold, which rolled it against full aileron. I aborted the approach...

[Area-51]

5 hours ago, LoonyBob said:

Gliding in a small thermal, the inner wing nibbles the edge of stall a lot; but one never allows it to develop, for a stall decreases the rate of climb!

 

I have had the fun of flying a T83 into strong rotor (off an adjacent hill) about 500m short of the airstrip threshold, which rolled it against full aileron. I aborted the approach...

Did you hold full aileron and wait for the aircraft to roll back level, or did you swap aileron direction and roll 360 through the direction of the rotor?

[LoonyBob]

Aerobatic manouvres were prohibited in AUF-registered aeroplanes... let us just say that I had to resort to unconventional measures to get out of the rotor and away from the ground!

Edited March 6 by LoonyBob
Exspansion

[facthunter]

Once you are in an unusual attitude, or serious  rotor or wind effects all bets are OFF anyhow. Preventing over stressing the airframe comes high on the list of priorities with retaining control a close second..   Nev

[Area-51]

40 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Once you are in an unusual attitude, or serious  rotor or wind effects all bets are OFF anyhow. Preventing over stressing the airframe comes high on the list of priorities with retaining control a close second..   Nev

I dont recall that being presented in the basic training syllabus.. 🤔

[facthunter]

Plenty of things are not taught in the BASIC training syllabus and your learning should not stop there. It's the "AVIATE" part of "Aviate Navigate, Communicate" sequence of priorities and  why employers like to have experienced and well trained  Pilots. People earning money by flying (with a few exceptions) have a Commercial or above licence. Nev

[facthunter]

Looking back on what I did, I've realised that dog fighting, balloon and streamer cutting were a big part of learning limit flying, plus doing and teaching basic aerobatics where the student  would sometimes do things you never dreamed of doing yourself, that required  the rabbit out of a hat save. It is NOT in any syllabus.   I have tried to push "Unusual attitude recovery" at least for instructors. No one appears to be listening..  Nev

[Roundsounds]

30 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Looking back on what I did, I've realised that dog fighting, balloon and streamer cutting were a big part of learning limit flying, plus doing and teaching basic aerobatics where the student  would sometimes do things you never dreamed of doing yourself, that required  the rabbit out of a hat save. It is NOT in any syllabus.   I have tried to push "Unusual attitude recovery" at least for instructors. No one appears to be listening..  Nev

I have found as time goes on the majority of instructors are fearful of anything other than a wings level 1G stall. Even then they often recover at the sound of the stall warning and don’t actually stall. The there’s the “pick up the wing with rudder” thing! Rudder is only used to prevent further yaw until you’re no longer stalled. 

[facthunter]

Ask anyone to do a sideslip.  Dreadful.  The teaching/ demonstrating of stalls is just a box ticking exercise the way It's usually done.    Nev

[djpacro]

 

On 25/04/2024 at 10:55 AM, facthunter said:

.....  I have tried to push "Unusual attitude recovery" at least for instructors. No one appears to be listening..  Nev

True, CASA's priorities for safety promotion are listed here Safety promotion sponsorship program | Civil Aviation Safety Authority (casa.gov.au) They seem to think that LOC-I is not an issue worth addressing.

On 25/04/2024 at 11:29 AM, Roundsounds said:

I have found as time goes on the majority of instructors are fearful of anything other than a wings level 1G stall. .... there’s the “pick up the wing with rudder” thing! Rudder is only used to prevent further yaw until you’re no longer stalled. 

Back when I started instructing (part-time) many years ago other instructors palmed off their advanced stall lessons in the Cessna 150 to me.

 

These days I do a lot of spin endorsements for flight instructor trainees for several flight schools. Too many cannot tell me the correct technique to recover from a stall in a turn.

(I also teach some to be spin and aerobatic flight instructors plus UPRT.)

[peter]

If your aircraft is fairly “dirty” and lacks power (ie my onex) then you bleed a lot of airspeed in a loop which makes it is easy to stall on the upper part of the downside of the loop if you are a bit aggressive. I don’t have a stall warning device but lots of spin practice helps with early buffet recognition and recovery.

My aerobatic instruction at Adelaide Biplanes hammered stall practise (stall/unstall/stall/unstall/stall/unstall and then repeat ad nauseam) in 60 degree turns til recovery was instinctive. I would thoroughly recommend their aerobatic/spin/unusual attitude recovery training.

[ClintonB]

Had the bejeezus scared out of me on final one day, I dropped an inside wing turning final from lack of airspeed.

only thing that saved me was a little voice screaming at me in my head don’t use the ailerons, full opposite rudder,

I saved it and landed on that go, I don’t think I would have made a circuit from nerves. I then went and grabbed an instructor, told them what happened, discussed the causes and had them com out with me for a confidence building flight.

it make you take notice.

[Roundsounds]

20 minutes ago, ClintonB said:

Had the bejeezus scared out of me on final one day, I dropped an inside wing turning final from lack of airspeed.

only thing that saved me was a little voice screaming at me in my head don’t use the ailerons, full opposite rudder,

I saved it and landed on that go, I don’t think I would have made a circuit from nerves. I then went and grabbed an instructor, told them what happened, discussed the causes and had them com out with me for a confidence building flight.

it make you take notice.

Still no understanding of stalls?

it wasn’t a lack of airspeed, it was too high an angle of attack. Full opposite rudder, lucky it didn’t flick the other way. 
Sounds like luck was on your side, perhaps get some theory / practical instruction from a properly trained and qualified instructor in an aerobatic certified aeroplane. Ask the instructor to show how close you came to dying. 
 

ClintonB, have a read of Peter’s post, the post prior to yours. Adelaide Bipanes know what they’re doing. 

Edited May 10 by Roundsounds

[robinsm]

used to practice them all the time, power off and on, also had a biennial test that involved recovery from stalls in steep turns, good fun

 

[facthunter]

Plenty don't seem to know how much they haven't been taught but how would they? It's neglect of a duty of care by the system. Nev