Rotax 4/ Oil

[danny_galaga]

"And goils ain't goils" ☺️

[facthunter]

I think it's an old CASTROL advert. Castrol is marketed under BP these days, in Australia.   Nev

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

I think it's an old CASTROL advert. Castrol is marketed under BP these days, in Australia.   Nev

I remember them well. The characters were 1930s American gangsters 🙂

[facthunter]

it's WAKEFIELD CASTROL derived from CASTOR OIL. which was used in the early rotary engines at a great rate.  Was also mixed with both types of model Plane fuel. Glo Plug and Diesel  and methanol burning speedway bikes with a total loss oil system. Nev

[onetrack]

I can't even begin to imagine what it must have been like for early pilots, with castor oil being thrown all over them.

 

Constantly smeared goggles, and the castor oil laxative effect. You wouldn't even need to sight a German Fokker, to sh** yourself.

[facthunter]

What you got had been through the motor and I wouldn't be swallowing it. The exhausts open in the same place as the cylinders rotate. You weren't up in the air for that long.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

It seems that the Brains Trust is quite content, to be tied to Rotax for the supply of crankcase oil and will happily pay whatever price for the privilege.

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

It seems that the Brains Trust is quite content, to be tied to Rotax for the supply of crankcase oil and will happily pay whatever price for the privilege.

I'm just going to stick with the shell aero. I don't think that costs any more than the good quality motorcycle oils that would also work. You know me, I don't want to pay more than I have to, especially the roTAX but with oil I'm leaving that for others to experiment with...

Edited March 3 by danny_galaga

[facthunter]

It's a critical Oil engine. WHY run the risk of being outside what the maker specifies? The most extreme BS exists on "what oil?" sites.  You wouldn't get a km with the Best ENGINE oil in your hypoid diff. Nev

Edited March 4 by facthunter

[skippydiesel]

10 minutes ago, facthunter said:

It's a critical Oil engine. WHY run the risk of being outside what the maker specifies? The most extreme BS exists on "what oil?" sites.  You wouldn't get a km with the Best ENGINE oil in your hypoid diff. Nev

Perchance you miss my point?

 

If you happen to be operating a Rotax 912iS you will have no choice in the your engine oil. That is if you want to use an an oil meeting the recommended specifications because Rotax will not release the specs, making it impossible to compare,  their specifications, with alternative suppliers oils. With the available supplier limited to Rotax you will also have to pay their asking price (likely to be very expensive).

 

This sort of marketing philosophy has become quite pervasive in recent times - I believe that John Deere (& some other large manufacturers)was taken to court over an extreme variation on this marketing ploy. They lost the case. 

 

This is an attempt to bind the customer to the supplier/seller. The captive customer can then become an assured revenue stream. This is a prime example of unethical marketing - I am surprised (not)  that the Brains Trust is so relaxed about it.

[danny_galaga]

Not so much relaxed, but not inclined to go further with it. You have done some research on it, you may need to go to the ACCC or similar.

[facthunter]

Anyone could do an analysis of it.. IF they could prevent someone making a suitable oil that would be an unsatisfactory situation worthy of attention. Nev

[skippydiesel]

1 minute ago, danny_galaga said:

Not so much relaxed, but not inclined to go further with it. You have done some research on it, you may need to go to the ACCC or similar.

Sure! - bring a case myself ?

 

As an retired public (I prefer pubic) servant I doubt I have the cash reserves to instigate the start, let alone go through with a case.

My position is weakened by not using the oil (like most current users, my aircraft is on a diet of AeroShell Sport +/4) ie I have no vested interest.

Note sure that Rotax market share, no matter how unethical,  would gain much interest in the wide open World - ACCC likely focused on bigger fish.

 

I just find it odd, that my friends on this Forum, not for the first time, seem quite unphased by, what I see as, clearly unethical behaviour - an Australian characteristic?.

 

[facthunter]

IF it had  different oil for the engine to that in the Clutch/ gearbox the oil issue would be much simplified and more simplified again if it had roller cam followers..  Nev

[skippydiesel]

3 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Anyone could do an analysis of it.. IF they could prevent someone making a suitable oil that would be an unsatisfactory situation worthy of attention. Nev

Not having any experince in oil analysis - what might the cost be?

"...prevent someone making a suitable oil" --- true! however it is very likely alternative oils are already available on the open market ie I doubt very much that Rotax would delve into the realms of engine oil manufacture, rather they would approach an existing supplier, seeking to have a suitable oil, rebranded as their in house product.

[facthunter]

I wrote extensively on this. Someone has made the oil FOR  them  and maybe others thought no available formulation would  do the job and declined to put their name to it.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

Sorry Nev - so what?

 

The point is, that neither you , I or the next 912iS owner, will be able to source, using Rotax recommended specifications, an oil from an alternative supplier.

[facthunter]

Obviously you haven't taken on board anything I've already posted.  Nev

[danny_galaga]

 

 

[skippydiesel]

23 hours ago, facthunter said:

Obviously you haven't taken on board anything I've already posted.  Nev

Ditto

 

 

[facthunter]

YOU brought up the questions and then you reject anything that doesn't suit your Whinge, Then wonder why  people get reluctant to reply or engage with you. All I get is an insult for the effort I've gone to. Why would I bother?    Nev

[skippydiesel]

10 minutes ago, facthunter said:

YOU brought up the questions and then you reject anything that doesn't suit your Whinge, Then wonder why  people get reluctant to reply or engage with you. All I get is an insult for the effort I've gone to. Why would I bother?    Nev

No offence intended Nev - you seem  quick "to dish it out" and very reluctant to receive/accept even the slightest comment, no matter how mild/inoffensive, that you can construe as being negative to whatever argument you are prosecuting  eg my "Ditto" to your "Obviously you haven't taken on board anything I've already posted.  Nev"

 

There is an apt saying - "Those in Glass Houses Shouldn't Throw Stones" - happy to explain 🙂

[turboplanner]

On 27/02/2024 at 11:00 AM, Blueadventures said:

As oil discussion is for Rotax and they take less than 3 litres (usually 2.8lts) at $19 per litre so only $57 every 50 hours; therefore even if your alternate oil choice is free it's only a $57 saving every 50 hours.  No worth any searching for an alternate product especially considering the gearbox internals needs regarding oil properties.  In my opinion anyone running a Rotax 912 and chooses to run oil other than recommended needs an upper cut, clip under the ear or even a kick up the arse to wake them up.

I agree. Over the years I've seen manufacturers testing product on dynos on multiple engines to get the durability their customers want or their competitors achieve, then other cases where the manufacturer wasn't getting the durability results for long life, couldn't afford to retool, but a certain lubricant solved the problem, then other cases where certain components in certain areas required a different lubricant to survive. They did their tests, got their life cycles right and put their specific lubricating specifications in the owners or workshop manual.

 

Then along came Australia's own experts, and sure enough their vehicles failed just as the original prototypes failed.

 

 

[facthunter]

'What have you added to the discussion  Skip? Same stuff over and over whereas I've given Facts from various angles. How is that "throwing stones"?. I don't have a problem with oils YOU do and I've been trying to help. No More. I've had it, so put that down as a win for YOU if it's some pissing contest.   I just don't care for anymore $#1t.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

'What have you added to the discussion  Skip? Same stuff over and over whereas I've given Facts from various angles. How is that "throwing stones"?. I don't have a problem with oils YOU do and I've been trying to help. No More. I've had it, so put that down as a win for YOU if it's some pissing contest.   I just don't care for anymore $#1t.  Nev

You have just proved my previous observation - I am sad that you feel the need to assert yourself in this way - take a breath and reread what I have said. At no time have I suggested you are wrong/contradicted you or used a hostile tone/language as you have.  I would be pleased if you did not miss or out of context quote me or add words that I have never used. Thank you