RAA's annual air show

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

 

61 mile per gallon us . And can go 100 mph .

spacesailor

i love the look of hummel birds. like a mini reno racer.

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

RAA 

No longer small ULP powered aircraft. 

spacesailor

the word on the street is casa are looking at hanging raaus out to dry and taking over all raaus responsibilities.  we will be looking for our own insurance but the plus side is they are going to abolish annual fees and it may open the way for part 103. this rumour is from a reliable source. it seems raa are not in the good books. watch this space.

[turboplanner]

13 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

RAA responded to my enquiry regarding UPL: uncertain about ULP availability on the field and vague about carrying fuel containers on the courtesy bus to from town.

I think you could be confident if someone contacted the local fuel distributor and did a deal for x number of fills over the event = x no of litres of ULP, and provided credit card dispensing to the wing.

[BrendAn]

58 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

I think you could be confident if someone contacted the local fuel distributor and did a deal for x number of fills over the event = x no of litres of ULP, and provided credit card dispensing to the wing.

A fuel truck is not going to go out there for a couple of hundred litres.

 

[BurnieM]

8 hours ago, BrendAn said:

the word on the street is casa are looking at hanging raaus out to dry and taking over all raaus responsibilities.  we will be looking for our own insurance but the plus side is they are going to abolish annual fees and it may open the way for part 103. this rumour is from a reliable source. it seems raa are not in the good books. watch this space.

There are a lot of politics both ways ie the CASA delays to group G and then quickly bringing out basic 5 med makes you wonder.

Its do-able but there are always Casa rumours. Would require hiring extra staff on a constrainted budget.

Annual Casa rego/license fees rumour also floating around but unable to locate source.

[turboplanner]

56 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

A fuel truck is not going to go out there for a couple of hundred litres.

 

OK scratch that one then; they can find their own ULP, why would we bother organising the event?

[Blueadventures]

19 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

OK scratch that one then; they can find their own ULP, why would we bother organising the event?

Avgas is available 24/7 so if flying a Rotax no issue unless overly fussy.

[skippydiesel]

I am definitely "overly fussy".

 

While I have used AvGas, about 2 times over 15 years, I will make every reasonable effort to avoid it.  On "away trips" I carry two x 20L collapsible bladders/jerry cans, so that I can get a lift/taxi/walk to the nearest appropriate servo for fuel.

 

I dont think its unreasonable to expect that a Fly-In, that is principally aimed at small (RAA) level aircraft, many of which will use ULP, would organise to have this fuel available.

[BrendAn]

33 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

There are a lot of politics both ways ie the CASA delays to group G and then quickly bringing out basic 5 med makes you wonder.

Its do-able but there are always Casa rumours. Would require hiring extra staff on a constrainted budget.

Annual Casa rego/license fees rumour also floating around but unable to locate source.

The rumour I heard came from casa but it is still a rumour. If anything does come of it how will it looks anyway. Maybe casa will keep raaus but get involved with running it. 

[BrendAn]

33 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

OK scratch that one then; they can find their own ULP, why would we bother organising the event?

You know all about transport. And you know a fuel company is not going to pay a driver to go out there if it costs them more than they make. I might be wrong, I am just thinking like a business owner 

[BrendAn]

6 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

I am definitely "overly fussy".

 

While I have used AvGas, about 2 times over 15 years, I will make every reasonable effort to avoid it.  On "away trips" I carry two x 20L collapsible bladders/jerry cans, so that I can get a lift/taxi/walk to the nearest appropriate servo for fuel.

 

I dont think its unreasonable to expect that a Fly-In, that is principally aimed at small (RAA) level aircraft, many of which will use ULP, would organise to have this fuel available.

I run my xair on avgas because I know it can sit for a while without going off. It's a jab motor so it can run either. The $2.80 a liter makes my eyes water though. Lucky it only holds 50 lt.

[Blueadventures]

Just now, BrendAn said:

You know all about transport. And you know a fuel company is not going to pay a driver to go out there if it costs them more than they make. I might be wrong, I am just thinking like a business owner 

Plus; the permission to be air side and then the bunkering and refuelling area requirements and then if carrying portable fuel between aircraft etc, etc considering the airports classification.

 

[BrendAn]

15 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

I am definitely "overly fussy".

 

While I have used AvGas, about 2 times over 15 years, I will make every reasonable effort to avoid it.  On "away trips" I carry two x 20L collapsible bladders/jerry cans, so that I can get a lift/taxi/walk to the nearest appropriate servo for fuel.

 

I dont think its unreasonable to expect that a Fly-In, that is principally aimed at small (RAA) level aircraft, many of which will use ULP, would organise to have this fuel available.

they may say this is a flyin . aviation fuel is for aircraft.  may i ask why you don't like avgas.

[facthunter]

Rotaxs's don't like 100 LL  They run the heads too cool for the lead to flow but I reckon ONE part tank full won't  damage it. Incidentally, Lead doesn't help GUIDES unless it was a real old thing that runs really hot made last in the 20's.  Nev

[BrendAn]

4 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Rotaxs's don't like 100 LL  They run the heads too cool for the lead to flow but I reckon ONE part tank full won't  damage it. Incidentally, Lead doesn't help GUIDES unless it was a real old thing that runs really hot made last in the 20's.  Nev

i never knew that. i only use it so i don't have fuel going stale and it has been run on it since new .

 

i was talking to a bloke with an avro biplane , he said it doesn't like avgas because the lead builds up in the bottom cylinders.

[skippydiesel]

53 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

they may say this is a flyin . aviation fuel is for aircraft.  may i ask why you don't like avgas.

What Nev said.

 

As I said, I will use it if there is no reasonable alternative - I think it would be reasonable for RAA to ensure a supply at Parkes

[Blueadventures]

30 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

i never knew that. i only use it so i don't have fuel going stale and it has been run on it since new .

 

i was talking to a bloke with an avro biplane , he said it doesn't like avgas because the lead builds up in the bottom cylinders.

Maybe phone floods for info, have heard of mixing decalin (very small ratio) so the lead does not build up for Rotax 582 engines.  Best check it further.  The 4 strokes are ok according to Rotax under 30% usage.  A mate who does oil analysis tells me it takes 2 oil changes to get the lead reading zero in the samples.

Edited April 9 by Blueadventures

[BrendAn]

7 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

Maybe phone floods for info, have heard of mixing decalin (very small ratio) so the lead does not build up for Rotax 582 engines.  Best check it further.  The 4 strokes are ok according to Rotax under 30% usage.  A mate who does oil analysis tells me it takes 2 oil changes to get the lead reading zero in the samples.

mine is a jab2200. been on avgas since new in 2004

[facthunter]

The LOWER spark plugs will often show the effects of TEL build up first . with 4 stroke FLAT  type motors. If in a hurry the mechanic checks them FIRST. There's also ground running procedures where you can clear the fouled plugs by leaning the mixture at  a relatively low power setting say1800 rpm for a Lycoming. Do it into wind if possible More likely with planes that do a lot of taxiing' with a rich mixture.

  Yes I reckon Lead would Pug up 2 stroke rings. The oils are matched/ formulated to running piston temps though and that's going to vary. Build up on the Crown can be dust, carbon Lead and  almost any sort of thing including oil additives and metal wear particles. Some friction modifiers short out spark plugs More likely where the motor is one that uses a lot of oil.. Nev

Edited April 9 by facthunter

[skippydiesel]

Thanks Blue,

I am aware of Decalin - very popular in the USA.

I am on my second Rotax 912 ULS -  except for the 1-2 times/15 years, I topped up (shandy) with AvGas, I don't use it. There is no discernible improvement in performance (I am told there may be a high altitude benefit, but I don't fly above 10,000ft ). There is a significant cost/L penalty and if used regularly, additional service cost due to lead build up.  I don't plan on using AvGas any time soon. Decalin treats a problem, that I would rather avoid in first instance.

For pilots who don't fly regularilly, AvGas is much slower to "go stale" than ULP (especially 98 RON). I haven't been in this situation but would suggest draining tanks & carburettor bowl, rather than using AvGas.

Thanks anyhow for the thought

 

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

You know all about transport. And you know a fuel company is not going to pay a driver to go out there if it costs them more than they make. I might be wrong, I am just thinking like a business owner 

Mini Tankers may not service the Parkes area, but if they do you can fuel a tractor, generator, pump etc.\

 

The other truck is a  typical local distributor for a district. The farm delivery truck usually carry about 6000 litres of fuel (4x2) or 16,000 litres 6x4 and depending on the district may have one or two bulkheads to separate the fuel types including ULP. They are usually out on farm rounds every day and will call in to drop of one 20 litre drum of lubricating oil or fill one tractor. In the cropping or cotton area the configuration can be 8x4 with a 4 axle dog trailer.

 

The 4x2 or 6x4 would be making a stop at the airfield for a short time, just as he would for a tractor.

 

[BrendAn]

14 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Thanks Blue,

I am aware of Decalin - very popular in the USA.

I am on my second Rotax 912 ULS -  except for the 1-2 times/15 years, I topped up (shandy) with AvGas, I don't use it. There is no discernible improvement in performance (I am told there may be a high altitude benefit, but I don't fly above 10,000ft ). There is a significant cost/L penalty and if used regularly, additional service cost due to lead build up.  I don't plan on using AvGas any time soon. Decalin treats a problem, that I would rather avoid in first instance.

For pilots who don't fly regularilly, AvGas is much slower to "go stale" than ULP (especially 98 RON). I haven't been in this situation but would suggest draining tanks & carburettor bowl, rather than using AvGas.

Thanks anyhow for the thought

 

absolutely no need to be draining tanks and carbys with avgas, definitely with mogas though.

[Blueadventures]

58 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

mine is a jab2200. been on avgas since new in 2004

All good my bad

[facthunter]

I've observed instances of uneven compressions  with the 912s after using Leaded fuel and in every case it came back Ok after about 2 tanks. of Mogas. Don't bother with Leak down tests It can be felt when burping the oil back IF you are used to the normal/right feel.  If you are as fussy as, you take the heads off and reseat the valves but NOT pulling engines apart  UNLESS you must is best.. This is not new information. Nothing has changed in the last 20+ years. IF it further deteriorates  after returning to mogas. get onto it. Rotax 4 stroke Heads are NOT a  problematic item generally. Judgements  have to be made in these things on a balance of informed possibilities. On other occasions I've said don't ignore a new vibration feel  of engine beat etc find out what it is and I've said engines don't fix themselves. WE are changing a causal factor by eliminating it and having a good chance of success. Nev

[skippydiesel]

Have contacted the fuel company that will be servicing the Fly-In.

 

Person I spoke to, didn't know that many small aircraft use ULP and has no plans to make it available for the event.