Lugging fuel to your deserted airfield……

[Freizeitpilot]

As a newbie on this forum and prospective LSA owner, I’ve read probably a cuppla hundred posts on the best methods of pumping fuel, arguments over the correct type of fuel, stale fuel, airfields with fuel nearby, etc, etc.

 

However, I still have one dilemma I’m interested in how other pilots have solved…..

 

So, you’ve landed at a specific location you really needed to go to, that has no on airfield fuel at all, but there is a servo about a km away. You have two x 20L collapsible (compliant ) Jerry cans with you, but the airfield is completely deserted, so you decide to trek on foot to the servo.  It’s a hot day, but you make it to the servo and fill up your 20L fuel bladders with mogas - happy days !

 

You ask a bloke with a nice new car at the servo for a lift back to the airfield, and he looks at you and what he perceives are your dodgy fuel bladders, and says, sorry mate, I’m going the other way….…So, you begin the 1km slog back to the airfield on foot trying to lug ~ 17kg in each hand - I dunno about you lot, but I’m getting too old for that sh#$@t.

 

So what’s the solution ? Do you show a bit of leg and hope to get a lift, pay for an Uber/Taxi (who then declines to carry your fuel bladders anyway) or what ??

Yeah, I know in trip planning, almost the first thing you plan for is fuel availability ! But that can severely limit your options if you only seek out airfields with fuel on tap.

 

Is this a possible answer - it’s a half-sized beach buggy. They can handle up to 100kg, but weighs about 7kgs.

Its a heck of a lot of junk and weight to carry around in the back of the plane just for this purpose, but at least it can be used for other things.

How have others solved this dilemma ??  Opinions ? Experience ? Alternatives ?

[Deano747]

Like this a lot. All it needs is an electric drive and you can sit in it as well ...........or add a folding electric scooter to your away kit for an additional 30kgs and you can tow it. Handy to get into town or that camping spot on the beach. 

[skippydiesel]

Fit a an auxiliary tank. with in flight transfer pump.

 

You will still need two 20L fuel bladder (two keeps you within your personal W&B🙂)  & a good quality filter funnel but now your aircraft has longer legs/duration, to get you to that airfield where there is  ULP on tap/courtesy car to go to the nearest appropriate servo/helpful people to drive you there & back.

[Freizeitpilot]

…….and for a 24 registered aircraft ?

[facthunter]

You are not training in it at the time are you?  Ona trip I was on we had about five aircraft and one had the fuel problem as it was a 2 stroke. He hired a small van and took us around all day which we paid him for and he during  that Time, filled his wine cask bladders which already had the right amount of TS oil. in each. I know HE also Probably did the clutch in as it was being slipped too much. Nev

[Freizeitpilot]

We’re all perpetual students aren’t we ? But, no, in this hypothetical, it is not a training flight.

I also understand that a 7kg beach trolley weighs about 6.5kg too much. So I’m still interested what ideas the RF Illuminati can come up with to resolve the dilemma in the scenario.

[turboplanner]

34 minutes ago, Freizeitpilot said:

We’re all perpetual students aren’t we ? But, no, in this hypothetical, it is not a training flight.

I also understand that a 7kg beach trolley weighs about 6.5kg too much. So I’m still interested what ideas the RF Illuminati can come up with to resolve the dilemma in the scenario.

Research the NSW regulations for transporting fuel; that will put you on the safe track.

[skippydiesel]

17 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Research the NSW regulations for transporting fuel; that will put you on the safe track.

Be sure to know the answer BEFORE asking the question.

It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission" 

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, Freizeitpilot said:

…….and for a 24 registered aircraft ?

Why go for a factory build.

 

Even if thats what you eventually purchase - go E registration for EXPERIMENTAL and do the mods (sensibly)

[Garfly]

2 hours ago, Freizeitpilot said:

I also understand that a 7kg beach trolley weighs about 6.5kg too much. So I’m still interested what ideas the RF Illuminati can come up with to resolve the dilemma in the scenario.

Definitely not an illuminato but I've pondered the same scenario myself.  

 

How about one of these?  Weighs in at 1.25Kg. 

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com.au/Xcellent-Global-Lightweight-Aluminum-Capacity/dp/B097248Q3N/ref=sr_1_5?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.A9pUAxJNeOZ6Z6XUduAxjN9zEtjdb6xGeor4AGom5sF246AWjPwhu2MPaikh7ebfPePTSH3szYUgqfb86Md1H1oFfeZlemJyLhzK_ZJwsrmxC75k1nCSskY7JLWUc9-tN4KAe0B7JF_rCGULxwUzrOIcCNXnspcdwfVRdmR8HZlpEgNBRiS7lh5zfZxynPVQQtXbEWPUDrIFH47M-88WxjQR9TFVrPrR316Oej4YlrdOHkOXPjLEi2GxE_WkSrcQ69J9MP0urqOFt8z3TsNOIjxy_0JDCuyZ9_Ia3sari7k._5nKLRgVgtFZLEidcFN4S3H5CQB8sjKMlUViRg0TLUA&dib_tag=se&keywords=luggage+trolley&qid=1712838327&sr=8-5

 

 

 

 

 

[Freizeitpilot]

Hmmm, thanks Garfly. Now we’re getting somewhere !

I’d probably retrofit bigger wheels to truck over gravel, etc, but the concept is good.

 

FP

[Freizeitpilot]

9 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Research the NSW regulations for transporting fuel; that will put you on the safe track.

From what I understand, you can carry up to 250L of fuel in compliant Jerry cans, but they should not be carried on the outside of a vehicle in an area that may be exposed to collision risk.

 

Are NSW regs unique ? What if the airfield was in another State ?

[Bosi72]

Sounds like one of the Nullarbor servos. Call servo nanager and offer him $20 to give you a lift.. 

[KRviator]

It's probably not the worst option out there, TBH. If it's one of those "You must get there" and you know there's no fuel, then it makes sense to save your back. That being said...

Last year I flew from Gladstone-Townsville and tankered fuel in a steel jerrycan so I didn't have to try to source fuel on arrival - though Christian (from Donnington Airpark) did say he's happy to facilitate that if needed from the local servo, but it was just one less thing I wanted to fluff about with. If you have the payload, I'd consider that over a trolley and collapsible bladders depending on your W+B.

But I have to ask, what went amiss in planning this hypothetical trip? Surely you're not just going to this unattended airstrip just for the sake of it, you'd be meeting someone, or picking someone up, so there's the option for a lift there?

The other thing I'd mention is consider is putting the call out on FB, you may well find someone sympathetic to your plight who'll give you a hand. For example: a few months back, a BK-based pilot asked about public transport from our local airport to an adjacent town, and while it is there, it's extremely limited. I said "If you're coming up around this day or time, let me know and I'll take you in, I need to nip over there anyways". He flew up, parked the Arrow in my backyard, I drove him across to drop off his parcel while I picked up a bike for Mini-Me, he brought me a pie in return and he flew home.

Another example would be a mate got stuck with the weather coming home from Qld a little while back and lobbed in to our local airport. Called me up and after a bit of Tetris, we squeezed his Maule into our hangar and I dropped him in town where he had arranged a ride back to the coast. Picked him up couple days later and he flew home under blue skies.

These aren't isolated examples, so don't be too afraid of asking for help. If @Bosi72's on the right track, you won't be the first to need help at that particular strip, so FB or even here can provide an answer as to what other pilots have done in the past.

Re the transport of fuel (or other DG), anything that is a "Placard load" requires marking and specific training, and what defines a placard load varies depending on the material. Which is how you can get away with carrying a couple of gas bottles in your car - it's under the limit. From memory, it's any DG in bulk (a container of more than 250L) or more than 1000L or Kg all up, or any quantity of Class 1.1, or 6.1 or 7 (though it's been 20 years since I did my DG course, so cut me a little slack if I'm getting forgetful!). There's nothing particularly special about carrying a jerry or two of fuel - in NSW or elsewhere so don't get too wrapped up about "following the roolz", or any cow cockie who goes to get fuel for his gennie would be a criminal.

[turboplanner]

30 minutes ago, Freizeitpilot said:

From what I understand, you can carry up to 250L of fuel in compliant Jerry cans, but they should not be carried on the outside of a vehicle in an area that may be exposed to collision risk.

 

Are NSW regs unique ? What if the airfield was in another State ?

The Regulations are State Regulations (as agains a common Commonwealth Regulation) so you need to check the States you are travelling to/in.

That doesn't mean they won't be identical or almost identical, but you only have to do the checks once.

 

In GA Flying where cross country flying is part of flying there isn't an issue because (a) you have about 6 hours range on board and (b) for most trips there will be several suppiers at the airport en route with the correct fuel and with earth clamps.

 

RA was intended for local flying, and people have stretched the boundaries without really thinking it through, using all sorts of solutions including dangerous containers, and dangerous refuelling and transport procedures.

 

The baggage trolly above is a good solution for walking distance provided the container is designed for fuel.

 

When you read the regulations there are also possibilities for transporting it, just not in the boot of a car.

 

For example it's illegal to refuel the portable tanks that sit on the floor or a boat with an outboard motor. That's because as the nozzle is pouring the fuel in, vapour is being created and is leaking out of the tank filler; on a hot day you can see it; you can certainly smell it. It's heavier than air so it flows down over the side of the tank and settles on the floor of the boat. When the vapour reaches 1.3% of the surrounding atmosphere it becomes explosive.  That's why you read about several boat fires every year.

 

That's why taxis won't carry your jerry can in the boot of a car - there's no escape for the vapour.

 

A ute is a different story; the jerry can can be tied to cargo ties and utes have a slot at the tailgate to let heavier than air capours out. You only need to go with your jerry can to the local pub where on weekends there may be 20 utes lined up and hold up a ten dollar bill.

 

KR's on the money about the crossover point for DG, but do your State checking so you are safe rather than just pick up any BS on SM.

 

 

 

Edited April 11 by turboplanner

[skippydiesel]

14 hours ago, Freizeitpilot said:

…….and for a 24 registered aircraft ?

Another thought  - Contact the factory & request the approval  to install a ferry tank.  Nothing radical about ferry tanks, they are an established method of extending the flight duration in all sorts of aircraft.

 

The approval may or may not be given  and at this speculative stage (no aircraft) I don't know what factory aircraft you may end up with,  however some production aircraft manufacturers' are more flexible than  others when it comes to modifying their design.

[turboplanner]

4 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Another thought  - Contact the factory & request the approval  to install a ferry tank.  Nothing radical about ferry tanks, they are an established method of extending the flight duration in all sorts of aircraft.

 

The approval may or may not be given  and at this speculative stage (no aircraft) I don't know what factory aircraft you may end up with,  however some production aircraft manufacturers' are more flexible than  others when it comes to modifying their design.

Public liability issue from that advice.

[Freizeitpilot]

Many aircraft have a duration of 5 + hours and simply flying somewhere else to get fuel, was not the original intent of the scenario….but thanks for the lateral thought.

[skippydiesel]

2 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Public liability issue from that advice.

That is nonsense - a letter of approval, to install a modification,  from the factory, is a legitimate pathway - I have been there.

Edited April 11 by skippydiesel

[danny_galaga]

I'll just add that if you have the room, old fashioned plastic jerry cans are a LOT lighter than the collapsible ones. And a lot cheaper too. I loved the idea of them and looked into it and decided I had plenty of room in my plane. There are two weight and balance luggage spaces in my plane, two empty plastic jerry cans fit in  the rearwards one no worries.

 

I imagine a solid can would be easier to lug around than a collapsible one too.

Edited April 11 by danny_galaga

[turboplanner]

4 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

That is nonsense - a letter of approval, to install a modification,  from the factory, is a legitimate pathway - I have been there.

This applies in GA with reliable engines for ferry purposes.

RA is founded on the acceptance that engine failures will be a common occurrance.

We have a thread on Public Liability with real cases shown.

[danny_galaga]

Actually now I can't find where I got the weights for the cans from 😄

 

A normal plastic 20 litre jerry can weighs 1.6-1.8 kg. Can someone weigh a collapsible 20 litre fuel can? Maybe they actually weigh LESS! I have been known to be wrong every now and then 😄

Edited April 11 by danny_galaga

[Freizeitpilot]

17 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

I'll just add that if you have the room, old fashioned plastic jerry cans are a LOT lighter than the collapsible ones. And a lot cheaper too. I loved the idea of them and looked into it and decided I had plenty of room in my plane. There are two weight and balance luggage spaces in my plane, two empty plastic jerry cans fit in  the rearwards one no worries.

 

I imagine a solid can would be easier to lug around than a collapsible one too.

Thanks Danny,

The various A/C I’m considering have limited cabin storage and a cargo door which looks too small (without breaking out the tape measure) to squeeze a rigid Jerry can through, hence the thought of collapsibles. The flying Ute looks a bit more attractive at this point !

…..but let’s not turn this into a thread about a/c choice, I’m just interested in how people  get fuel from a servo to an airfield if thumbing a ride gets tricky.

[danny_galaga]

12 minutes ago, Freizeitpilot said:

Thanks Danny,

The various A/C I’m considering have limited cabin storage and a cargo door which looks too small (without breaking out the tape measure) to squeeze a rigid Jerry can through, hence the thought of collapsibles. The flying Ute looks a bit more attractive at this point !

…..but let’s not turn this into a thread about a/c choice, I’m just interested in how people  get fuel from a servo to an airfield if thumbing a ride gets tricky.

For sure. My post was only about fuel cans. Although after I posted I couldn't find where I got the weights from when I made my decision to use solid cans 😄

 

If pouring, I imagine solid will be easier. 

 

 

Edited April 11 by danny_galaga

[skippydiesel]

19 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

This applies in GA with reliable engines for ferry purposes.

RA is founded on the acceptance that engine failures will be a common occurrance.

We have a thread on Public Liability with real cases shown.

Where do you get this stuff from?

 

Modifications to, factory built, aircraft can not be legally performed, without the approval of the factory/manufacturer. Ergo they can be performed with the factory's (letter of) approval.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with "engine failures", "common occurrence" or any other unrelated matter.

 

You assumption that  in this case "ferry tanks" can only be applied to GA is unfounded. GA is, in Australia, a registration description, not a class of aircraft. There are many GA registered aircraft that can also be registered RAA  (& visa versa). 

 

Speculation: Aircraft that have flown around the World,  UK/Australia , flown long distances over water (ferry flights) will have been fitted with duration/range extending ferry tanks - the pilots have not ended up in jail.