Half doors for Savannah S

[BC0979]

Has anyone successfully fabricated half doors for their Savannah S?

Would you please share your design 

Thank you 

[Area-51]

Buy new doors, cut off upper windows; 1/2 doors done 🤷🏼‍♂️

[BC0979]

1 hour ago, Area-51 said:

Buy new doors, cut off upper windows; 1/2 doors done 🤷🏼‍♂️

Understood, but what about the hinge/mounting points? And air flow on the upper half? Sure some sort of fairing is needed on the upper half which is why I am asking this forum

 

[Area-51]

13 minutes ago, BC0979 said:

Understood, but what about the hinge/mounting points? And air flow on the upper half? Sure some sort of fairing is needed on the upper half which is why I am asking this forum

 

Several ways to go; retain whole door frame and cut off upper plexiglass section; or have sub frame for top half plexiglass that hinges down from midpoint; or delete upper plexiglass and fit adjustable deflectors at forward down channel of door frame, like on pre 60's sportscars/roadster windshields. Deflectors only need to be about 4" long to be effective

Edited April 12 by Area-51

[BC0979]

Great suggestion,  I am checking with my dealer for the price.

Thank you 

[facthunter]

I've flow legally with a door off but why? They usually Pulsate and obviously with two off there's a likelihood of much more variation of performance and handling. Nearly anything will fly with enough power.. You become a Test pilot the same as if you fly outside the prescribed W& B of your Plane.  Nev

Edited April 13 by facthunter

[IBob]

The Savannah S POH says it may be flown with one or both doors off. That side-slip should be avoided if only one door off. And that drag will be increased, particularly at high A of A.

[IBob]

On 13/04/2024 at 12:17 AM, Area-51 said:

Several ways to go; retain whole door frame and cut off upper plexiglass section; or have sub frame for top half plexiglass that hinges down from midpoint; or delete upper plexiglass and fit adjustable deflectors at forward down channel of door frame, like on pre 60's sportscars/roadster windshields. Deflectors only need to be about 4" long to be effective

Area 51,  a couple of things to take into account regarding the standard doors:
1. They are bat-wing in operation.

2. They are not a rigid frame with the polycarbonate attached. They are upper and lower windows, with their joining point shaped and anchored together in such a way as to produce a slightly bubble shape, with a light frame around the whole. I am not confidant that the upper section or the upper polycarbonate could be removed without greatly weakening and probably deforming the remaining door. But I may be wrong......

[Area-51]

2 hours ago, IBob said:

Area 51,  a couple of things to take into account regarding the standard doors:
1. They are bat-wing in operation.

2. They are not a rigid frame with the polycarbonate attached. They are upper and lower windows, with their joining point shaped and anchored together in such a way as to produce a slightly bubble shape, with a light frame around the whole. I am not confidant that the upper section or the upper polycarbonate could be removed without greatly weakening and probably deforming the remaining door. But I may be wrong......

Thanks; yes you are correct; i did not allow for that in my above comments; half doors will be a much more complex venture to negotiate; apologising for error. The latching mechanism and frame flex will need to be adequately addressed to negotiate a half door setup. Perhaps the lower half can swing down and be hinged at the lower frame, and upper frame shortened to suit; it would require seperate latchings for each upper and lower half.

 

All things considered, should be asking firstly "why?"...

[gary nelson]

Has anyone attempted to fabricate the very clever half-door construction posted on YouTube by Chieio twelve years ago(Savannah ICP HD half door - YouTube). He has not responded to my inquiry of about a year ago. I particularly liked that he hinged the door from the forward down tube of the cabin steel frame, such that the door swings out rather than up-seems much safer. If someone had a drawing of his work, in some detail, I would be delighted to purchase it-he has already done all of the heavy lifting.  I will be flying my Savannah S on Puddle Jumper amphibious floats in Central Florida, where half doors as Chieio has perfected them would be ideal. I've learned a great deal from this forum and I'm very grateful.

 

[IBob]

That looks great, Garry Nelson, and shows much of the necessary detail.
Would need to be modified for the S, where the bottom edge of the door is not in one plane as it is in the VG in the video.

Aside from that it looks like 'just' fabricating an al tube door frame to match the lower doorframe, then attaching polycarbonate with some sort of outer flange. Hinge and latch.
I note he did a nice job of curving the upper frame member out wards (pretty much as it is in the standard S door, to give a bit more elbow room).
I see in the flying footage he also has a polycarbonate deflector at the front of the upper door space.

 

As for the standard S door:
It's not easy to remove without risk of knocking your paintwork around.
And I have 3-point door closers, sourced with my kit from Australia, though I do not know if the agent there still makes them.
 

[gary nelson]

Hello IBob,

Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, I can fabricate them using his experience, particularly regarding the size of the curved lexan on the partial upper panel. But, if someone had sketches, notes, and general advice regarding their experience, it could save one a lot of effort. I enclosed a couple of photos of my attempt at making a 3-point door closure mechanism, the idea was from a photo of a Savannah I saw on Recreational Flying. After a good week of making a lot of parts that didn't fit, I finally got something that works quite well. 

I decided to keep the kit supplied Dzus type cowl latch in place--you know, belts and suspenders:-)

[IBob]

Gary Nelson, neat job of the door closers!

On mine, the rear rod goes into a hole  in the fuselage frame, outboard of the extruded angle there. The hole is reinforced by a little SS plate, held by 2 rivnuts, with slotted holes to allow some adjustment.
And the rod ends are not points, but shaved off to a point at a gradual angle on the outboard side so that they pull the door in as the rods move to the closed position.  I found the door closed more readily if I bent the tips so as to give an easier lead-in.

[gary nelson]

Good idea on the rod tips, I'll think about that.

[IBob]

Gary, I don't have a pic of mine, but here is a detail from the pics the then agent (since retired) sent me.
I think he made the closer kits locally. He was responsible for a number of innovations, and also completed many kit builds.
You can see how the rod is tapered on the outboard side at the end, both rods are like that. As mentioned, I also found it helpful to bend the very tip of the rod inboard a bit.
I also looked at his pics to try and see if they also used the standard door front latch. It looks as though they didn't, but certainly the over-centre action of that latch will pull the front centre of the door in snug.

[gary nelson]

IBob, My thinking exactly-very important to get the leading edge pulled in tightly to the fuselage.  Thanks again for the idea regarding the tweeking of the taper and radius of the latching rod. 

[gary nelson]

IBob, here is a recent photo of one of my doors showing the kit supplied leading edge latch.

[gary nelson]

The pink ribbon is to keep from walking into sharp door corners.

IMG_2681.HEIC