Goulburn Airport for sale

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, 10.5 said:

You make a very good point about Councils and in Goulburn’s case there are very many serious questions to be asked. Unfortunately when one asks, The doona is pulled over the head as pudgy little grasping fingers are firmly stuck into already deaf ears.

The Council's involvement in this airport was several years ago. It's unlikely the Ratepayers would be interested in paying retail price today, which is what will be asked here.

[Garfly]

I got the impression that a buy-back isn't even on the cards.

The hope being that the "pre-existing covenant" (that YGLB remains) will be honoured into the future.

[turboplanner]

13 hours ago, Garfly said:

I got the impression that a buy-back isn't even on the cards.

The hope being that the "pre-existing covenant" (that YGLB remains) will be honoured into the future.

Have you got any details of this covenant?

[Garfly]

15 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Have you got any details of this covenant?

 

No, I'm quoting 10.5's post:

 

On 19/04/2024 at 9:50 PM, 10.5 said:

There is a pre existing covenant which specifies that it remain an airport.

 

[turboplanner]

30 minutes ago, Garfly said:

 

No, I'm quoting 10.5's post:

 

 

TKS

[Garfly]

2 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

TKS

TKS?

[turboplanner]

On 19/04/2024 at 9:50 PM, 10.5 said:

There is a pre existing covenant which specifies that it remain an airport.

Is there a public copy of the covenant?

Often the Council will not publish it, claiming its commercial, in confidence, but sometimes on important matters it will be attached to the documents to be passed at a meeting.

I'm not sure what it's legal standing will be if the operator no longer owns the property, but a lawyer would.

[turboplanner]

4 minutes ago, Garfly said:

TKS?

That's an Auto-Industry secret for Thanks.

[robinsm]

The airpost was gifted to the people of Goulburn by The Poidevan family on the condition that it remain an airport indefinitely.   The council sold the airport to a private operator aginst the wishes of the users and the goulburn people in general in an obvious money grab.   The routine upkeep was offered to be done by the users of the airport but money and alleged self interest bypassed the locals.   

I dont know the wording of the deed of gift but I am sure someone has a copy.   Since being taken over by the p[rivate operator, the airport has been semi run down and a state of aggravation has existed between the users and the owner.   

 

 

[turboplanner]

27 minutes ago, robinsm said:

The airpost was gifted to the people of Goulburn by The Poidevan family on the condition that it remain an airport indefinitely.   The council sold the airport to a private operator aginst the wishes of the users and the goulburn people in general in an obvious money grab.   The routine upkeep was offered to be done by the users of the airport but money and alleged self interest bypassed the locals.   

I dont know the wording of the deed of gift but I am sure someone has a copy.   Since being taken over by the private operator, the airport has been semi run down and a state of aggravation has existed between the users and the owner.   

 

Can you remember when, or find out the date of the Council Meeting where it approved the sale to the current owner? 

[robinsm]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

Can you remember when, or find out the date of the Council Meeting where it approved the sale to the current owner? 

Unfortunately I cannot but member 10.5 or Volksy68 may have that information.   I was dealing with a few issues at the time.   

 

[10.5]

4 hours ago, robinsm said:

The airpost was gifted to the people of Goulburn by The Poidevan family on the condition that it remain an airport indefinitely.   The council sold the airport to a private operator aginst the wishes of the users and the goulburn people in general in an obvious money grab.   The routine upkeep was offered to be done by the users of the airport but money and alleged self interest bypassed the locals.   

I dont know the wording of the deed of gift but I am sure someone has a copy.   Since being taken over by the p[rivate operator, the airport has been semi run down and a state of aggravation has existed between the users and the owner.   

 

 

Just to add to the above. A covenant was created by Council shortly before it was sold which specified several conditions which applied to the land use.  The owner did not adhere to the conditions, and council did not enforce the conditions which they put in place. None the less it is a legal document which was pivotal in the past. 

[10.5]

4 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Can you remember when, or find out the date of the Council Meeting where it approved the sale to the current owner? 

It was leased with an option to purchase. That process was protracted and took about two years to finalise.  An interesting footnote was that the sale had a series of significant presale conditions which needed to be met. They were not met, Council was formally advised of the shortcomings, but proceeded anyway.  To answer your question, it may be possible to find that date, but the sale document date can be found if it is important to you.

Edited April 21 by 10.5

[tillmanr]

Will a title search show the date of transfer and the date of sale?

[10.5]

19 minutes ago, tillmanr said:

Will a title search show the date of transfer and the date of sale?

Council leased the airport to the now owner for two years beginning on 1 October 2011 and sold the airport to the now owner on 2 September 2013.  

[turboplanner]

22 minutes ago, tillmanr said:

Will a title search show the date of transfer and the date of sale?

The Title search will show the date of transfer (not the lease). 

If the Airport was leased and has since been transferred to the current owner and is still being used as an airport, then that's between the Council and the owner.

 

I'm just trying to get the date of the Council Meeting which approved the sale, to save hours and maybe weeks of sifting through Agendas and Minutes to find the details of the covenant if is was included. A Planning lawyer woud still be needed to decide if it carried any weight after a new sale, and what was specified in the case that the current owner sold it.

[turboplanner]

10 minutes ago, 10.5 said:

Council leased the airport to the now owner for two years beginning on 1 October 2011 and sold the airport to the now owner on 2 September 2013.  

OK, thanks.

[turboplanner]

Link to Agendas and Minutes, Goulburn Mulwaree Council:   https://www.goulburn.nsw.gov.au/Council

[turboplanner]

The online agendas and minutes only go back to 2018.

Pre-digital most Counclls had a storage issue with Agendas and Minutes which could be from20 to 50 mm thick. Some Councils (not referring to this one) who wanted to bury information would take a truckload to the State Public Record Office and then claim it wasn't practical to search for the data you wanted (except on one occasion where a CEO agreed with me and wanted to spear a Councilor and sent a team of six across to the PRO vault and found the data in about an hour).

As we know digital files are much more easily stored and there's no reason why all their Agendas and Minutes can't be sitting there available for checking.

I'd suggest a Goulburn Mulwaree ratepayer ask Amy for a copy of the Minutes that resulted in the Sale on 2/9/13, and in particular, the Covenant presented to the Councillors and the Covenant which became part of the Contract of Sale. Amy will tell you if it is Commercial in Confidence, and can't be released to the public, but it any case it shouldn't be posted public here. There are other ways to handle it.

[10.5]

10 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

The online agendas and minutes only go back to 2018.

Pre-digital most Counclls had a storage issue with Agendas and Minutes which could be from20 to 50 mm thick. Some Councils (not referring to this one) who wanted to bury information would take a truckload to the State Public Record Office and then claim it wasn't practical to search for the data you wanted (except on one occasion where a CEO agreed with me and wanted to spear a Councilor and sent a team of six across to the PRO vault and found the data in about an hour).

As we know digital files are much more easily stored and there's no reason why all their Agendas and Minutes can't be sitting there available for checking.

I'd suggest a Goulburn Mulwaree ratepayer ask Amy for a copy of the Minutes that resulted in the Sale on 2/9/13, and in particular, the Covenant presented to the Councillors and the Covenant which became part of the Contract of Sale. Amy will tell you if it is Commercial in Confidence, and can't be released to the public, but it any case it shouldn't be posted public here. There are other ways to handle it.

Let me save you some time…

[jackc]

What about Ben Morgan and AOPA becoming involved in this situation?

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

What about Ben Morgan and AOPA becoming involved in this situation?

Ben's not a Planner - this will either not need any action if the buyer wants to continue as an airport, or will need a Planner.

[Ian]

On 19/04/2024 at 10:11 PM, 10.5 said:

To add some context, the current owner has suffered several heart attacks and is currently facing four serious criminal charges under section 27 of the Work Health and Safety Act 2011.  WorkCover does not take too kindly to businesses killing their customers.  Criminal convictions usually mean one is prevented from operating as a director of a company.   His departure will be universally welcomed as his greatest contribution to Australian aviation.

 

I'd heard rumours of his excellent treatment of aviators and other people.

Given the fact that he never achieved the requirements for the transfer of title it seems odd that it was transferred. But that probably just local Government.

 

Does Goulburn remain the best option for Canberra fliers?  Is there any intention of Canberra airport, or anywhere else to cater to general aviation at all?

 

Is anyone who was involved with the Williamsdale site left around?

[10.5]

13 minutes ago, Ian said:

I'd heard rumours of his excellent treatment of aviators and other people.

Given the fact that he never achieved the requirements for the transfer of title it seems odd that it was transferred. But that probably just local Government.

 

Does Goulburn remain the best option for Canberra fliers?  Is there any intention of Canberra airport, or anywhere else to cater to general aviation at all?

 

Is anyone who was involved with the Williamsdale site left around?

I think there is every chance that once he has been nailed to the crosses by Worksafe, CASA’s ongoing pressure, Goulburn council  prevail with their court case, the forced sale of the airport and his deteriorating health condition have prevailed it will be a fine place to operate from. Truth be known, it is pretty good now. You can completely ignore his impotent and largely incoherent threats and just get on with flying. Many folk from Canberra are doing just that now.

[Ian]

What is the Goulburn council  court case?