Goulburn Airport for sale

[skippydiesel]

30 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

An outstanding cry for democracy, Skippy but i would equate it more with Australia's never ending cycle from vertically integrated businesses to horizontally integrated businesses where every separate activity/location is required to make a profit.

 

There's still room in the horizontal model for a sub group to operate at break-even cost.

I am all for profit but not at any cost.

I understand vertical integration - not horizontal.

Most if not all successful business models utilise the concept of symbiosis.  That is the recognition that not all parts of the organisation, can make a profit but all parts are necessary, for the good/health/profit of the whole.

The market economy model espouse cutting/selling off non profit sections to the ultimate disadvantage of the whole.

 

Take education -

Most rational people would agree that our young, are the future of our country. They (collectively, not just the children of the wealthy) are are the most valuable national asset, far outsriping all others combined. Without a well educated young our future is very much diminished.

Using a business model - investing in the future (assets) ensures the viability of the business. Failure to invest will almost certainly see it loose market position/viability and may be collapse. 

Australia briefly had a free education system (most of our leaders have benefited from it).

For many years now, taxpayers money has been funnelled into the private (mainly religiose) profit making school education system, to the detriment of the public system. ergo a large percentage of the asset (young) are not being adequately invested in.

Universities have had public funding whittled away. To compensate they have been allowed to charge (fee for service) students. This has led to the prostitution of our higher education system - for profit!

To rob Peter & pay Paul, the Government, in their short sighted largess, offer index linked student loans, supposedly to make tertiary education available to all. It has had the opposite effect.

Increasingly we our seeing our young decide years of educational hard graft, with a huge HECS debt at the end, is not for them.

We have created a two tier education system, which in time will divide society to our national loss . 

The asset, that is our young, is being degraded by the "user pay"/market economy THAT AUSTRALIA IS STILL PURSUING, in some sort of perverse self mutilating destructive orgy. 

 

The same argument can be made for ALL aspect of health, transport infrastructure (inc. airports), water, communication, power - the Gov. expects the private sector to pick up the slack - not without a profit they say.

The profits are made from you and I paying (if we can) for the very basics of modern life.

No profit, no service - sure the individual suffers but ultimately so does the nation.

 

End of rant!

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

I am all for profit but not at any cost.

I understand vertical integration - not horizontal.

Having said that, you go on to apply horizontal policies to vertical, which of course will fail.

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

Take education -

Most rational people would agree that our young, are the future of our country. They (collectively, not just the children of the wealthy) are are the most valuable national asset, far outsriping all others combined.

 

 

For many years now, taxpayers money has been funnelled into the private (mainly religiose) profit making school education system, to the detriment of the public system.

Nothing like it. Private and Church schools are required to train, teach and evaluate to the State School curriculum and they are paid for that base teaching, which helps commonality when they arrive at Uni or into the workforce. Anyone who has done part of their schooling in one State and then abruptly been shifted to another State would see the benefit of that. The Private schools then need an arm and a leg from the parents to add the components which bring the TERs needed for Uni entry in the best positions and character building to be able to hold down management jobs and professions.

 

[robinsm]

If you wish your children to step outside the state funded system then you should have to pay.   Not the state.   Your choice to step aside, you pay.   Not me, not other peole who do not have kids at private schools, you.   Simple really.   If you dont like the public system then you choose the private system, just dont ask us to pay for it.

 

[Reynard]

Geez, one steps outside for a bit, and when you come back you hear a solar-powered communist private school will be built where Goulburn airport used to be.

[facthunter]

Don't blame ME . It was like that when I got here, Boss.  Nev

[Markdun]

Maybe a little topic drift.

 

I forgot to mention a ‘covenant’ on a land title has effect like a contract in law. Only parties to a contract have legal rights to enforce it. In the case of a covenant to an aerodrome that would be the neighbouring land owners, the council, & maybe ppl with aircraft in hangers at Goulburn. At our property (with airstrip) all properties have a covenant that prohibits the keeping of cats, & requires dogs to be locked up at night etc. But only a neighbour can take someone to court to enforce it…. Never gunna happen.  Pretty useless, like greenhouse gas emission targets, corporations taking ppls’ privacy seriously and committed to…blH blah, & about as effective as ‘payers and thoughts’.

[facthunter]

"Thought s and Prayers" don't cost much. Payers  are different.  Nev

[Markdun]

It’s the ducking belling decker

[Methusala]

In our 'representative dumbocracy', ya don't always get what ya want. Plenty of money for super duper bike paths, courtesy entitled greens, but not much for airports. Interesting to follow the money (Snow=weather).

[skippydiesel]

15 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Having said that, you go on to apply horizontal policies to vertical, which of course will fail.

Nothing like it. Private and Church schools are required to train, teach and evaluate to the State School curriculum and they are paid for that base teaching, which helps commonality when they arrive at Uni or into the workforce. Anyone who has done part of their schooling in one State and then abruptly been shifted to another State would see the benefit of that. The Private schools then need an arm and a leg from the parents to add the components which bring the TERs needed for Uni entry in the best positions and character building to be able to hold down management jobs and professions.

 

You have a problem with your argument Turbs - Its a visual one. Every private school, that I have seen, in the past few years, is positively bursting with new buildings, playing fields, even swimming pools and the like. Then there is the "popping up like mushrooms" - where the is a buck to be made, there is investor (religious organisations?)jumping on the taxpayer gravy chain.

Check out your local public schools - mobil classrooms - lack of maintenance, etc.

The contrast between affluent private and struggling public, is becoming starker every year. 

We are not only fostering a financial divide we are fast-tracking a religious one - so much for the secular state.

I support the right of parents to send their children to a private school.

I deeply resent the tax dollars, that underpin, the success of private schools.

No tax dollar for private gain (schools). 

[Markdun]

It’sa death spiral for public schools. As local public schools close & funding tight, public schools, at least here in Canberra truly become communist era ‘peoples factory school No.53’ with huge numbers of kids crowded into smaller & smaller spaces. And we wonder about why there is an issue with social behaviour….. politicians need to study rat behaviour. So of-course parents vote with their feet (we did), diminishing the numbers in public schools and reducing the public & political support to increase funding to public schools…and so on. And who would want to be a teacher there anymore.  I taught secondary science and maths for 15 years before moving to govt & telecommunications. When I retired, I thought I’d go back to do some science and maths relief teaching, but evidently my 4 year Forestay degree with HDs in maths, physics & some engineering subjects & post grad quals in teaching, plus experience wasnt good enough anymore, plus a heap more red tape bullishlt.  I think the only solution is the Finnish one: ban private schools… then and only then will there be support for proper funding.

 Like others have said, I’d much rather we invest in the country’s future by investing in our ppl…mostly education. It’s called human capital formation. And not invest in useless submarines or the stock market (like the incredibly stupid ‘future fund’)

 What’s this got to do with Goulburn aerodrome I’ve no idea.

[skippydiesel]

Markdun,

 

Nothing, directly, to do with Goulburn aerodrome but the fact that it ended up in private hands/now to be sold again, is an indictment of Gov policy, when it comes to public investment/assets.

 

Your insight in to schools & teaching have been depressingly enlightening/confirming.

 

That you could not go back to teaching, to share your knowledge/life experince is a crime and shows how short our memories are - after WW2, many/most of our teachers had been in the military. It was this generation/experience, that most of my better teachers came from.

 

I do not agree with banning private schools, just that they should not  receive a cent of funding from the taxpayer, while still conforming to Gov education curriculum/standards.

 

The use of the word communism, is unfortunate. I despise communism but am clearly of a socialist bent. Like all extreme expressions of  ideology, Communism is to be abhorred.

Edited May 13 by skippydiesel

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

You have a problem with your argument Turbs - Its a visual one. Every private school, that I have seen, in the past few years, is positively bursting with new buildings, playing fields, even swimming pools and the like. Then there is the "popping up like mushrooms" - where the is a buck to be made, there is investor (religious organisations?)jumping on the taxpayer gravy chain.

Check out your local public schools - mobil classrooms - lack of maintenance, etc.

The contrast between affluent private and struggling public, is becoming starker every year. 

We are not only fostering a financial divide we are fast-tracking a religious one - so much for the secular state.

I support the right of parents to send their children to a private school.

I deeply resent the tax dollars, that underpin, the success of private schools.

No tax dollar for private gain (schools). 

Your choice Skippy, I've seen both recently. A lot depends on the Public School Headmaster. Ours applied for the John Howard School Hall programme where the whole school +parents fits in for major events and also applied for new classrooms when Civid hit and the kids were doing online schooling.

[skippydiesel]

1 minute ago, turboplanner said:

Your choice Skippy, I've seen both recently. A lot depends on the Public School Headmaster. Ours applied for the John Howard School Hall programme where the whole school +parents fits in for major events and also applied for new classrooms when Civid hit and the kids were doing online schooling.

It's not a choice Turps its an unfortunate observation on the lack of foresight by successive Governments. 

 

FYI - I have experienced what happens to a society, divided along religious/economic lines and its very very nasty.

[turboplanner]

Looks like the interest in Goulburn Airport has petered out, and most have said they wouldn't go there anyway, so best to wait until it has been sold and then see what the new owner wants to do with it.

 

Same with RA around Canberra, plenty of opinions but no appetite to support Goulburn by flying there, or buy a property and build an airstrip.

[turboplanner]

2 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

It's not a choice Turps its an unfortunate observation on the lack of foresight by successive Governments. 

 

FYI - I have experienced what happens to a society, divided along religious/economic lines and its very very nasty.

How about you do the research, find out what the government gives each private school every year what it's for, and what the school has to do for it in return. Anything else is blowing bubbles at the sky.

[skippydiesel]

8 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

How about you do the research, find out what the government gives each private school every year what it's for, and what the school has to do for it in return. Anything else is blowing bubbles at the sky.

The Government should not be providing a cent of taxpayers money to private schools.

 

What these religious corporations, do with the tax money, is irrelevant, they should not have it in the first instance. 

 

To argue that failing to adequately fund the education of ALL our young, (supporting tax dollars going to private profit making schools)  is anything more than a slow moving train wreck for the nations future, is failing utterly, to have an understanding of asset management.

 

Supporting taxpayer funded private education, is advocating for a have/have not society. If you are a future "have" - lucky you. If a future "have not" - tough titty - at least you will be in the majority, who may be advocating hanging the minority from lamp posts.

 

To add insult to injury, is the rise and rise of religious indoctrination (tribalisation),  that will just add fuel to the coming wreck.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

The Government should not be providing a cent of taxpayers money to private schools.

 

What these religious corporations, do with the tax money, is irrelevant, they should not have it in the first instance. 

 

To argue that failing to adequately fund the education of ALL our young, (supporting tax dollars going to private profit making schools)  is anything more than a slow moving train wreck for the nations future, is failing utterly, to have an understanding of asset management.

 

Supporting taxpayer funded private education, is advocating for a have/have not society. If you are a future "have" - lucky you. If a future "have not" - tough titty - at least you will be in the majority, who may be advocating hanging the minority from lamp posts.

 

To add insult to injury, is the rise and rise of religious indoctrination (tribalisation),  that will just add fuel to the coming wreck.

Have the mice got to the cornflakes?; that's not research. You could equally argue that taxpayers shouldn't be footing the bil for any schools; that's the parents' jobs but they spend all their money on lattes, Kias, and the evil Monster trucks, Rav 4s.

[Ian]

While it's a long way off topic I tend to support skippy in relation to the funding of education to an extent.

Education is a common good which should be accessible to all and funded by Government on that basis.

Merit is only visible when the playing field is level, and we should want to be able to discriminate merit rather than some other process.

 

While I understand some that people want to sent their children to be taught by people who believe in X, however this shouldn't be on taxpayers dime as it's not a common good.

 

 

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, Ian said:

While it's a long way off topic I tend to support skippy in relation to the funding of education to an extent.

Education is a common good which should be accessible to all and funded by Government on that basis.

Merit is only visible when the playing field is level, and we should want to be able to discriminate merit rather than some other process.

 

While I understand some that people want to sent their children to be taught by people who believe in X, however this shouldn't be on taxpayers dime as it's not a common good.

 

 

This is a flying site and the thread is about Goulburn Airport and we're seeing some of the silliest posts I've seen on the site.

 

People who believe in X? What on earth do you think these schools teach? Certainly not endless lessons on X.

 

[Methusala]

Govt funding of 'private ed' gives them that wants exclusivity a publicly funded 'bunk-up'. It's like govt deciding to fund auto purchases with an across the board tip of the first $10,000. Makes the purchase of a Merc a little easier. Nothing to do with equality, merely helping Merc buyers at the expense of all.

[tillmanr]

It costs taxpayers more to create a position in a government school than an independent one. The government is saving overall by having students attend independent schools. This has been long argued but the facts are ther.

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, tillmanr said:

It costs taxpayers more to create a position in a government school than an independent one. The government is saving overall by having students attend independent schools. This has been long argued but the facts are ther.

Your point???

 

My argument is not about savings??? It's clearly about appropriate use of tax moneys, being invested in our children (education). Our children (even if you don't have any) are the nations future.

The potential intellectual resource, that is contained within the brains of our children, will not be fully realised, without proper funding.

Proper funding will not happen, while the taxpayer is underpinning the running and development, of private schools (for the future elite).

 

I am not only concerned with the syphoning of public funds away from the public education system - I see a second and equal concerne;

 

I think it would be fair to say, the overwhelming majority (all?) of private schools are religious in nature.

What is the motivation in a religious club starting a school? I would suggest their raison d'etre is recruitment.

The religious have a generational management plan.  (In stark contrast to our political leaders, who seem to have difficulty imagining a life beyond the next election).

The religious have eon's of experince in lobbying & political manipulation and know that numbers count (votes). They also know that to have sympathetic ear in Government requires grooming leaders from a young age. In short they wish to indoctrinate the young to their world view (join the club).

Organised religion is not a benign force - history will attest to this, time & time again. It is intensely tribal, seeking dominance for IT & its followers, in power and economics. In contrast to the teachings of their holy books, they have no qualms about crushing the opposition, often literally.

Cant happen in Australia??

It is not so long ago (my Mother's generation) that there was a sharp sectarian & racial divide in Australia - Newspaper job advertisements openly barred catholics, jews & coloured applicants. Whole Gov. bureaucratic departments were either protestant or catholic - could all be on the way back eg the recently failed bid by the religious, to legally bar non/other/alternative believers from holding a job in their schools.

In my Mother's youth Australia had about 7 million people. Widely dispersed and for the most part able to live fairly (by World standards) prosperous lives.

The equation is changing - we now are heading to 27 million, concentrated in a few coastal centres - life is starting to become a bit of a challenge for the working class. Add to this, the disgraceful concentration of wealth with few. How long will the disadvantaged tolerate slipping further and further behind????

 

To my mind, it's a crime against the taxpayer, and the future wellbeing of our nation, that any public money, for whatever purpose, goes to private schools.

[Ian]

On 14/04/2024 at 10:57 AM, Ian said:

Any thoughts about where to hangar aircraft in the region would be welcome. I'm still amazed that the national capital only has a single airport within about 100km.

Trying to bring this vaguely back in the direction of a flying forum rather than the relative merits of subsidies to support a education system for the wealthy.

As I see it.

• Canberra has no GA hangars available at a reasonable so unless you want to keep your plane exposed to the elements its not an option
• Goulburn's ownership is under a bit of a cloud at the moment.
• Currandooley airstrip near lake George is going to be covered by solar panels.
• The ACT Government doesn't see opening a second airport at Williamsdale as a public good and there's a dearth of alternative options in the ACT.
• The Federal Government doesn't see any strategic imperative to open a second airport.
• The Kennedy airstrip in Adaminaby appears to be a nice group, however it's a bit of a hike along a goat track to get there, or longer on bitumen.
• Tumut also seems like a nice place but the comments about goat tracks and distance also apply.
• There appears to be a short private strip between Lanyon Homesteam and Tharwa.
• If there are people who have their own airstrips, there doesn't appear to be a great incentive or appetite to encourage their use by the public.

 

[Marty_d]

Similar problem down here in southern Tas.

 

I'm going to want to find my plane somewhere to live in hopefully the next 12 months.  I'm on a waiting list for a short strip nearby (Sandfly) but it's very limited in the number of planes they allow there and also a strip which requires a bit of experience to use (I think they require 200 hours).

My only other option currently is park it in the open up at Tunbridge, about 1.5 hours drive away.