The Cost of Aircraft

[kevinblack]

Just a general observation. Was at Parkes a couple of weeks ago and had a look over some of the current offerings. Some nice acft, but the pricing has gone bats$%^&*t crazy. The general pricing of those acft was between $300k to $600k+. I am unsure of the market these people are aiming at (some say flighty schools, who am I to argue), but I'm quite sure this is way outside the area of recreational flying. I could be wrong and maybe it's just a sign of the times what with inflation and all, but I'm pretty sure it's not 300%. I don't know if building is way cheaper (has never interested me), but I do note the likes of Vans n the experimental marketplace have spectacularly increased their prices.

 

Anyway, rant mode off, just disappointed to see that sort of pricing which were for some OK aircraft, nothing that I'd call spectacular.

[facthunter]

Large labour content and small numbers. =s expensive.   Nev

[spacesailor]

Kevinblack .

Cheap " aircraft " .

My " Hummle Bird " is costing me " peanuts " partially as I haven't got a flight certificate.

Even flying at 6 litres per hour , seems ridiculous,  compared to most ' light ' planes.

spacesailor

[Reynard]

Like it or not, there is an underlying tenant of marketing:

 

“If you have the right stuff at the right place at the right time, you can charge whatever you want”.

 

Clearly there are limits to this statement, but if these aircraft are still selling at these prices, this is what the market will tolerate, and they will keep on selling.

 

There is also a trend for evermore sophistication and technology in new aircraft which is reflected in the price. Again, it appears this is the direction the majority of buyers want to go.

 

A contradiction to this is the huge price rises for 40 year old 2nd hand aircraft as well, possibly through a ‘scarcity’ factor in Australia.

 

The other issue is input costs for manufacturers, especially energy prices in Europe and labour, have also risen since the Ukraine war……but not by 300%.

 

Ultimately, I can’t see new aircraft prices falling any time soon.

 

[Kyle Communications]

No different to house prices..they still keep going up despite the economy... The only way to keep the pricing down a fair bit it to build it yourself . Though kit prices are getting out of control too now but still a lot better than buying a "factory built" if its for your own use/pleasure then building is the only way to be able to afford it.

 

The price difference is crazy. My first Savannah kit back in 2011 ....I paid 27k for I believe now they are 48k !! so by the time you add a engine at 38k and radio and prop you are over 90k then they have to build it.

I bought a RANS S-21 kit in 2018 and it was exactly a year until it arrived here so in 2019 it cost me 64k landed here to my door in Oct 2019 all taxes and freight paid. To get the same kit here now is around 120 to 130k and that is no engine or avionics at all or paint and time to build.

To but a finished S-21 in the USA now factory built I think is around US$195,000 so thats 320k aussie plus by the time you get it here. I could not afford that now. Thats why old secondhand ones are at the crazy prices now..its all typical of the market.

 

I just went and recosted my kit for the S-21 at todays pricing. Mine cost me US$34k when I bought it. The current price for the same kit is now US$60k. Thats basically AU$92,000 at the exchange rate of 0.65. When I bought mine the exchange rate was 0.72 which is about AU$47,200  so basically double the price now and no engine or avionics or paint yet. Then of course you have the freight, the port charges and import fees and of course slap on the GST on all of that so at least AU$130k maybe more by the time you get the kit home...still thats a lot cheaper than a factory built at AU$300,000 plus all the charges and taxes to get it here

 

 

[rgmwa]

My RV-12 (912ULS) finished and painted with extras like lights, ELT and autopilot cost me $96k when it first flew in 2015. The current post Chapter 11 kit price from Vans (with the now-standard 912iS) is US$101,446 plus avionics at anywhere between US$23,982-US$45,362.  With a basic single screen panel and no extras, that comes to US$125,428. Allowing for the current exchange rate and import costs, it would now cost $230k - $250k to build one, which I and probably many others couldn't justify. 

 

[sfGnome]

Yes, the prices now are nuts, but they’re not going to get any cheaper. If you want to build (as I do), then you either pay the price or go and take up lawn bowls. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[facthunter]

Too much  politics in Lawn Bowls. Nev

[gareth lacey]

My build so far has cost me 25 k prop is ordered another 2 k landed from ukraine engine being rebuilt atm so all in all about 35 k for a brand new aircraft my labour is not counted what else do you do when retired but keep busy

[BrendAn]

17 minutes ago, gareth lacey said:

My build so far has cost me 25 k prop is ordered another 2 k landed from ukraine engine being rebuilt atm so all in all about 35 k for a brand new aircraft my labour is not counted what else do you do when retired but keep busy

What aircraft is it

[gareth lacey]

Based on a RV6a but slightly wider and different wing profile

[spacesailor]

WOW ! .

What unrealistic money , for " toys " .

Then there's the hanger . Club membership,  

Lastly running costs. 

spacesailor

 

[Litespeed]

So how are the Jabiru prices going?

 

Should be relatively far cheaper than the inflated imports.

[Kyle Communications]

150k I think I saw about a month ago on FB

 

[Thruster88]

The like new j230's with new gen4 engines don't seem to be commanding a price that reflects the new price of jabiru and other makes. Long time aircraft market watcher.

[spacesailor]

An older but well maintained Jabiru on " Pickles Milperra ",  1995 553J LSA model. 

Nice looking two seater . It ends Monday 

But nowhere for me to park it ,

spacesailor

 

[Reynard]

1 hour ago, Litespeed said:

So how are the Jabiru prices going?

 

Should be relatively far cheaper than the inflated imports.

Not really. J230D  ‘from’ $182,500 list price on the website.
Czech and Polish types can be had for around the same ‘list’ price but then you have freight and GST on top.

[skippydiesel]

Seems to me (little evidence) that when people show interest in, say a Czech, 2 seat Rotax 912 powered aircraft, the response they are getting, is not for the base model - 912ULS, ground adjust prop, manual flaps, steam gauges (or minimal glass, fabric covered seats , etc)  its  for an upmarket variant - with 912iS, autopilot, full glass, leather seats, electric trim, autoflaps, etc. Nor is the kit ever mentioned. Is this customer preference or "supersizing"?????

[Marty_d]

8 hours ago, facthunter said:

Too much  politics in Lawn Bowls. Nev

Too bloody dangerous too. More people die playing lawn bowls than any other sport...

[BurnieM]

11 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Seems to me (little evidence) that when people show interest in, say a Czech, 2 seat Rotax 912 powered aircraft, the response they are getting, is not for the base model - 912ULS, ground adjust prop, manual flaps, steam gauges (or minimal glass, fabric covered seats , etc)  its  for an upmarket variant - with 912iS, autopilot, full glass, leather seats, electric trim, autoflaps, etc. Nor is the kit ever mentioned. Is this customer preference or "supersizing"?????

A base model Foxbat similar to your specs is $190k (factory built).

 

912IS, EFIS and autopilot options are available for extra cost.

 

Edited May 29 by BurnieM

[skippydiesel]

28 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

A base model Foxbat similar to your specs is $190k (factory built).

 

912IS, EFIS and autopilot options are available for extra cost.

 

Yeah! Crazy price. $AU to EURO has a lot to do with it.

I have one hour in a Foxbat - my underwhelmed feeling is that they are a marketing success story. Dont get me wrong, absolutely nothing wrong with the aircraft. All analogies are flawed however I would liken the Foxbat to the Morris Minor of its day or may be the Toyota Corolla today, of cars -  a fair training platform .

For $190K (may be less) there are a host of better performing aircraft.😈

Edited May 29 by skippydiesel

[F10]

Yes the price of sport aircraft have gone beyond any kind of recognition. Basically not far off what Cessnas and Pipers cost in their day. Won't even mention todays prices for Cessnas and Warriors. Sadly kit costs really aren't much of a saving. If a kit costs you 60K, you can easily double that, by the time you have paid for avionics and an engine. Not to mention build time. As far as Jabiru is concerned, if you look at the cost of a brand new fly away 230D, at just under $200 000, with a descent avionics pack, 120Kt TAS cruise, 5 hours safe endurance and it really is a package hard to beat for that price. 

 

The often affordable alternative, is the second hand market where if you look and are patient, good deals are to be had. you can pick up a very tidy 172, for around $70 000 $100 000.....Some very tidy 170/40's (taildraggers) and C150/2's for $40 000 to u$60 000. These will fall into the new RA Aus Class G weight limit.  Pity the 172 falls just outside the new RA Aus weight limit, so that means you will need a PPL as minimum. RA Aus is great, in that maintenance costs are significantly reduced, if you get your L1. My aircraft partner and I picked up our Gazelle for a song. We showered it with TLC, got all the required servicing done, and ended up with a very tidy weekender, for $20 000. You would be surprised with a little work, an aircraft will clean up very nicely. So good deals are there, if you do a bit of digging.

 

Another factor is hangarage and those other hidden costs. Hangarage is a must for most RA Aus lighties. They will fall apart, kept outside, so that is a factor. I have seen a Jab 230, which had been hiding in a hangar with a thick coat of dust, but was almost brand new. However, it would have required a major service and possibly an engine change, due very low use....I guess the owner wanted new aircraft money for it, I don't know. But it has now been parked outside, for over a year...slowly falling apart. It breaks your heart.

 

 

[kgwilson]

My kit including avionics cost 47k in 2011. 3300A engine 18k. I added a few things like Dynon EFIS, EGT, Carb Heat etc & painted it myself. Total cost flying of 70k. My guess would be at least double that now, probably more.

[facthunter]

Hard to justify  as most planes are not used a lot. There are other significant costs as well. Add them up and it will shock you.     There's also plenty of hassles. Nev

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, F10 said:

...........................

 

Another factor is hangarage and those other hidden costs. Hangarage is a must for most RA Aus lighties. They will fall apart, kept outside, so that is a factor. I have seen a Jab 230, which had been hiding in a hangar with a thick coat of dust, but was almost brand new. However, it would have required a major service and possibly an engine change, due very low use....I guess the owner wanted new aircraft money for it, I don't know. But it has now been parked outside, for over a year...slowly falling apart. It breaks your heart.

 

 

For most aircraft I would agree 100% BUT my local airfield is mostly populated with Jabs - nearly all of which have been outside for probably up to 20 years ++. Most still fly, some  used as training aircraft fly many times per week. Jabs are amazingly tough.