Kyle Communications Posted June 17 Posted June 17 1 hour ago, sfGnome said: Just to clarify, where you talk about etch primer on the rivet lines, you mean on the outside of the skin only (ie not on the inside where the black stuff is)? Does having primer under the rivets stop them from making a tight joint? Could the layer of primer flatten over time and allow the rivets to loosen? Yes correct only on the outside that way the heads of the rivets have a coat of etch under them. The etch primer is super thin not like a full paint job like the pictures 2
skippydiesel Posted June 17 Posted June 17 18 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said: Iso is no where near as good as acetone. Acetone is fine dont be a pussy just like anything use your head how you use it. I use much more carcenogenic liquids in my electronics manufacture. its like anything .... use the right gloves and wear a mask..takes 30 seconds to put both on. Use the best stuff for the job. Anything can kill you No offence Kyle but why use a nasty to you & the environment product, when something else just as good (for paint prepping) exists, is far less dangerous and is possibly cheaper. In your eyes you may be a hero "I use much more carcenogenic liquids" but when technology offers a safer alternative, what's to lose???? I have worked in agriculture all my adult life - I have heard your sentiment expressed, regarding all sorts of chemicals, so many many times. The bottom line - there is no such thing as a safe chemical. PPE is a last resort, a very long way behind using a safer product, which should still be used with PPE.
Kyle Communications Posted June 17 Posted June 17 I use the best product for a job to make the job quicker or easier..I am not worried about the expense. I have dealt with much more nastier stuff in my worklife, Carbon tetrachoride and triclorethelene also PCBS in transformers and other related high voltage distribution equipment and I have a farm and deal with all sorts of other nasty crap too for the farm.....I take whatever precautions I need to. I am not a cheapskate I do the right thing for the right job to be as efficient as possible. That maybe your view above but this is my view..you do what you want and I will do as I want to. I am still alive and kicking You also really have a strange view..why would I think I am a hero????... I think your on the wrong planet Skippy. I was asked for my advice..you either take it or dont...simple.....I am not offended if you dont take the advice I offer because it was the way I did it and it worked fine. I really dont care for your opinion on it either way..this is my opinion and I dont have to explain it to you or anyone. Do what ever you feel comfortable with. My 2 cents worth Mark. is my name by the way...maybe I should start calling you by your last name. You would think after all these years on here you might actually get it right for once 1 1
Kyle Communications Posted June 17 Posted June 17 Hi Christian I am in contact with guys in a another country that assemble savannah and venturas as factory builts. I was talking to them about the Ventura and they told me a std 912 100hp is not good its marginal...a 914 is just ok but the Ventura flys very well with the 915 IS 2
skippydiesel Posted June 17 Posted June 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kyle Communications said: Technology/systems change - humans, mired in habit/comfort zone, are often reluctant to adopt - just an unfortunate fact. Your past/current experince, with highly toxic materials should have taught you, that personal protect equipment (PPE) is considered to be the last resort in protection, after all alternative safer options have been considered & rejected. "I am not a cheapskate..." No one suggested you were a cheapskate. "I do the right thing for the right job to be as efficient as possible." I would hope we all aspire to this. How is this relevant? "I was asked for my advice.." Yes and generously gave it. I did the same, offering an alternative hopefully safer product - you challenged my advice/experince - "Iso is no where near as good as acetone". No problem. I just happen to think you are wrong. "...I will do as I want to.." and I will support your right to do so - goodonya! "...still laive & kicking" - yeah! another favourite, comforting statement by those unwilling to contemplate another possible way. Well we all know of/heard of the person who smokes a pack a day and lived to 100 - Unfortunatly an exception does not a scientific/statistical probability change. ".....why would I think I am a hero????" Not so much a hero but making what I would consider to be a heroic/bravado argument. Your words/statements - "...don't be a pussy....- I use much more carcenogenic liquids..... - Use the best stuff for the job. Anything can kill you" "I really dont care for your opinion on it either way".. Abundantly clear my friend - why respond? "...this is my opinion and I dont have to explain it to you or anyone." True - but you seem to be😎 "Do what ever you feel comfortable with." Thank you "Mark." - My unreserved apologue - you use my nom de plume, yours is Kyle Communications, out of respect, I have referred to you thus. In future I will use Mark😈 Edited June 17 by skippydiesel
pmccarthy Posted June 17 Posted June 17 The discussion about acetone alarms me a bit. I had a job once where I had it all over my hands every day. So I have not worried about using it in my workshop. I just Googled it and found Health Risks: Irritation: Acetone fumes can irritate the eyes, nose, throat, and skin. Ingestion: Swallowing acetone can be toxic. Inhalation: Breathing in acetone can cause headaches, dizziness, and nausea. High ketone levels: Excessive exposure can be harmful, especially for people with diabetes. Thats about what I thought - so no cancer risk. Just as well, I don't want that again! 1
facthunter Posted June 17 Posted June 17 Genthin thinners are more available. I found it works better than acetone straight.. They all evaporate pretty quickly and can't possibly be good for you. MEK is bad too. Nev
facthunter Posted June 17 Posted June 17 Anyhow the rivets work by Holding the surfaces TIGHTLY together and rely on the friction to prevent movement and putting more shear load on the rivet(s). .015 thou sheet is really too tin to just rivet. Bonding would be the answer in these circumstances where the stress needs to be spred along the lap join. It would also serve to stop moisture. If you sprayed WD 40 , or anything oily it would weaken the joints by reducing the friction between the sheets. and putting more shear load on the actual rivets and star cracks to form from the Hole(s). Nev 1
Marty_d Posted June 17 Posted June 17 Very rare that 0.016" is riveted to another 0.016". Mostly to 0.025", 0.032" or thicker. 1
Christin Posted June 17 Author Posted June 17 So, generally speaking, don't use etch primer AND black stuff I got out of this. So I'm still not sure what I should do to prevent corrosion apart from using the black stuff. I'll be flying coastal A LOT, the plane will be outside and I won't always have access to fresh water to hose it down straight away. I'm just concerned if bare metal is left inside the plane I'll regret not having done anything in a few years.
Christin Posted June 17 Author Posted June 17 And yes in regards to engines, Mark. I went to Italy earlier this year and went to the factory. I flew a Ventura with a 912 and one with a 915. The 912 flies more like your Cessna 150 and the 915 is your STOL aircraft again. So definitely has to be a 915 to have similar performance to a Savannah.
Marty_d Posted June 17 Posted June 17 10 hours ago, Christin said: So, generally speaking, don't use etch primer AND black stuff I got out of this. So I'm still not sure what I should do to prevent corrosion apart from using the black stuff. I'll be flying coastal A LOT, the plane will be outside and I won't always have access to fresh water to hose it down straight away. I'm just concerned if bare metal is left inside the plane I'll regret not having done anything in a few years. The bloke who did the first inspection of my 701 advised me to get a spray inhibitor - think it was Cor-Ban - and said it misted so well that even giving a few blasts into the wings through the root lightening holes would give a good coating. Unfortunately I bought the wrong one by mistake - ended up with avionics corrosion inhibitor which doesn't mist well at all. In any case something like that or ACF-50 which seems to be heavily advertised when you search "Aircraft Anti Corrosion spray" could be an option. If you're rolling the black stuff neatly then maybe you could tape over it after it's dry and spray the rest of the part with either etch primer or a corrosion inhibitor.
Blueadventures Posted June 17 Posted June 17 This is the SavXL that regularly lands on beach that I mentioned in pm. Cheers
skippydiesel Posted June 17 Posted June 17 12 hours ago, Christin said: So, generally speaking, don't use etch primer AND black stuff I got out of this. So I'm still not sure what I should do to prevent corrosion apart from using the black stuff. I'll be flying coastal A LOT, the plane will be outside and I won't always have access to fresh water to hose it down straight away. I'm just concerned if bare metal is left inside the plane I'll regret not having done anything in a few years. I did mention : My Sonex Legacy has been undercoated/treated, during the fabrication/pre assembly stage, using the following spayed on products: External: DeSoto 51X349 Internal: Alodined,/ BMS10-11 As I was not the original builder of my Sonex, I don't know what the selection process was for these products however I am assured they are both excellent anticorrosion coatings for aluminium aircraft.
facthunter Posted June 18 Posted June 18 Definitely do not spray any oil containing substance around. Rivets rely on contact between the two (or more) surfaces.. In your circumstances Christin, I'd specifically seek advice from people operating in salt I know the C-180 float plane is stronger and specially corrosion treated when built. Nev 1
skippydiesel Posted June 18 Posted June 18 Christin In the light of your intention to carry out beach landings you may want to consider whole of airframe corrosion resisting treatments; I have used Tectyl 506 in marine & agricultural environments, as a corrosion inhibitor. It's a sprayable wax that is usually thinned to spray or "fog". I have found it to be excellent. Best applied with the appropriate "gun" An earlier respondent mentioned aircraft specific ACF-50 and I have heard of ARDROX DINITROL AV8 . Being aimed at aviator, I imagine they will be costly. Note: I have no experince of these products.
Kyle Communications Posted June 18 Posted June 18 It is water based and supplied in the ICP savannah kits for putting between mating surfaces. We tried finding a equivalent here. I found a maybe similar product used in marine applications but never bought any to try. I just order the tins direct from Aerokits the ICP distributor. My RANS is being done with it as well. Having dealt with a few wrecked sv's and rebuilds and a new build this stuff is very good and the alu does not corrode or scale at all between panels..rivets maybe corroded and other parts but where ever the black stuff is the alu is perfect no matter what age 1
Kyle Communications Posted June 18 Posted June 18 Christian if you are going to be coastal all the time then consider alodining. It actually isnt that expensive if you can find a powwdercoating place that does it. There are plenty around and they often have 6 metre long tanks that can do your skins no problem. The smaller parts you can do at home like I did. Just need to make a good size tank about 1 mtr long and about 300 high and 300 wide. Alodine..the good stuff is available...I got mine from a distributor over the south side of bbrisbane. My S rebuild is completely alodined . The sheets are easy..well the big parts because someone else does them for you but there is a lot of small parts. You need a acid bath first then wash them off then alodine them and let the alodine dry. The black stuff is still a must. I also would spray etch prime over the where you will be putting in all external rivets like the pics I posted
facthunter Posted June 21 Posted June 21 Alumiprep was what was recommended to ME to be used first. It came from the same place I got the alodine. An aircraft only supply place near Essendon airport. Nev
onetrack Posted July 5 Posted July 5 (edited) Re the safety angle when using solvents, adhesives, primers, volatile cleaners and paints - the MSDS for each product is a worthy read, and especially taking note of the potential health risks. Many of these risks are long-term. In other words, careless handling and ignoring recommendations for methods of use, will catch up with you eventually. I have an Italian panel beater/spray painter friend who has always been pretty gung-ho about basic protective equipment and processes. He sprayed a lot of 2-pack paints with minimal protection, usually just a dust mask. But 2-pack paints and many adhesives and other industrial chemicals contain iso-cyanates, and these compounds are most definitely, seriously dangerous to your long-term health. My panel beater/spray painter mate has just had a kidney removed due to a kidney tumour. He's a little over 70. The MSDS for iso-cyanates warns that liver and kidney tumours are a possible result of exposure to iso-cyanates, and I have little doubt my mates gung-ho attitude towards proper protection (air-wash helmet for iso-cyanates) has been behind the reason for his kidney removal. And for some reason, I have regularly found that women are more susceptible and sensitive to all the dangerous volatile solvents and paints, possibly something to do with their hormonal makeup. But fortunately, most women are more cautious than most blokes, and regularly take notice of use and handling safety warnings and recommendations. Paying attention to the "good ventilation" angle is one of the other very important points involved in using dangerous products. Edited July 5 by onetrack 1 1 1
sfGnome Posted August 17 Posted August 17 (edited) Okay, question for the ‘black gunk’ brains trust. I know that the Paint Buddy has been suggested for applying it, but it appears that it’s no longer in production and I couldn’t find anything similar. My attempts thus far have not been particularly successful. A paintbrush leaves lots of streaks. A roller leaves a mottled surface. A paint pad gives a better finish but can’t get into corners (and still leaves some streaks). Given that you’re painting both mating surfaces, is the level of streaks shown in the photo okay, or does it need to be better? I’m thinking of trying an airbrush, but I don’t know whether the paint will be too thick. Thoughts? p.s. How do you insert a photo in the body rather then having it as an uploaded file that people need to open separately? Pasting doesn’t appear to work for me from an iPad. IMG_3817.HEIC Edited August 17 by sfGnome
Kyle Communications Posted August 17 Posted August 17 Those streaks are fine but level off those drip runs with a gem blade or something. There are similar rollers still around from memory I did post some on this thread or another. I will find it and post it
Kyle Communications Posted August 17 Posted August 17 here is one that may work..its a rounded roller but maybe get some of those 4 inch flat rollers and ut them down to fit..not sure as I used the paintbuddy. Amazon has the paint buddy listed now...maybe someone was sitting on some especially for the price. When I bought mine I am sure they were only 20 bucks or so Some of the TEMU ones are work a look certainly at the price and Temu are pretty quick on delivery https://www.amazon.com.au/SHUR-LINE-57930-Rubbermaid-Paint-Buddy/dp/B000A2JTNW https://www.amazon.com.au/Bestt-Liebco-Painter-Storage-557700130/dp/B07HRK9F77/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.5d1ztZflX0yaBPZtAsOjyT6yW0cbhJZ_hGIy85ekquAW1yS6HZ5wfjNAYDWeiZEfE40iG-_4uQClxa6jgqhSYUpcsMOAfKHLSThnM5BWveTeQG9x-64oJ92oHTu_Pp4989OSnPmhZSaZ6CvMHNr1l82h-j1Lj11uroIK-WzmP3R09bOsyLHsC8bpobry7AHbIerrug0yR56xnPjHfYrVy3UW15FDakco_Uy82puOIk_8q9mQvagWJxjdKqt-p1qf9sRCYSlphnpwNzVQJfDF8DXz16i_KwHfmjG5ghoNl3E.shyUUCWgEBiwLdmGi2IQSJvrZ6dYmvpCivTaP1OpHxs&dib_tag=se&keywords=paint+buddy&qid=1718425140&sr=8-1 Paint Rollers High density Fabric Roller Frame Tray Mini - Temu Australia WWW.TEMU.COM Find amazing deals of 8 paint rollers high density fabric roller with frame tray mini paint roller refills painting supplies for smaller diy stenciling projects on Temu. Shop on Temu to start saving. Diy Small Roller Brush White Water based Paint Wall Repairs - Temu Australia WWW.TEMU.COM Shop 1pc diy small roller brush 100g white water based paint for wall repairs graffiti cover renovation crack concealment fragrance free home improvement tool on Temu. Discover more great prices on Tools &... Sponge Paint Roller Three Different Sizes Large Medium Small - Temu Australia WWW.TEMU.COM Shop 3pcs sponge paint roller three different sizes large medium and small 7 28 2 76inch 7 09 2 17inch and 5 91 1 38inch at the lowest price at Temu. Check reviews and See what's new of Arts, Crafts & Sewing...
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