Savannah/Ventura

[sfGnome]

Thanks. Yeah, I thought $110 was a bit much for the paint buddy. 🙄 I’ll try various things from Temu.

[onetrack]

You blokes aren't looking hard enough. You have to look at ebay.com (not ebay.com.au). The Rubbermaid Paint Buddy is available from various sellers on eBay for as little as US$9.99.

Just ask them if they will ship to Australia, and what is the cost of shipping. One seller in Jordan is offering a Paint Buddy with 2 additional roller covers for US$19.99 + US$29.99 shipping to Australia.

 

Rubbermaid Paint Buddy for sale | eBay

WWW.EBAY.COM

---

Get the best deals for Rubbermaid Paint Buddy at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!

 

[IBob]

sfG, as discussed elsewhere here, the corrosion proofing of joins is very important. I primed everything, but initially used the black stuff and brushing or speed brushing did not work well at all, giving me uneven cover and a lot of black stuff pushed through the rivet holes.
Were I to build again, I would definitely invest in the Paint Buddy. While they are not readily available in NZ or Australia, I would see the cost and inconvenience of sourcing from elsewhere as very minor in the context of the build, both in terms of ease and economy of use and making a proper job of it.
If it is anything like the Savannah, you don't need many tools, but it makes a big difference to speed and quality of build if those tools are well matched to the job.

[sfGnome]

Well, I passed a major milestone today. Yep, I’ve drilled out my first rivets (not including my practice rivet removal). 😊 

 

Tip to self. When the manual says “put all these parts together”, check the order you’re doing it in so that you don’t make some rivets inaccessible to the gun.

[IBob]

You and every other builder, ever, sfG..........)
BTW a few rivets will probably be in tight corners. Looking at what others had done, I filed as much as possible off the top of my rivet gun to make it less bulky there.
And you can also pull rivets without having the gun straight: I drilled a rivet stem sized hole down the centre of some 1/4" steel rod, then cut it off into individual 'beads'. By filing an angle onto one end of the bead (which you then thread onto the rivet stem), you can pull a rivet flush with the gun at an angle. There are obvious limits to this and sometimes the stem breaks high, rather than in the rivet body, but that is easily cleaned up.

[IBob]

With the riveting 'beads', suggest you make several as they tend to fall off and roll under the bench when you pull the rivet. And I think steel (mine were just MS reinforcing rod) would be better than aluminium, which does not slide freely.

 

In retrospect a bit of soap on the stem would probably help when doing this.....though it's not something I tried.

Edited August 21 by IBob

[Christin]

I bought some steel nuts at bunnings. Smallest size. That works with riveting in tight spots so far. 

I'm epoxy priming everything now, so antislavery not using black stuff. It is a lot of work, but I don't have to worry about paint buddies 😁

Only spray guns. Heads up Bruce, there are more surprises in the manual. Fuel tank installation is "fun".

 Wings will hopefully be done in the next few weeks. 

[sfGnome]

2 hours ago, Christin said:

Heads up Bruce, there are more surprises in the manual. Fuel tank installation is "fun". Wings will hopefully be done in the next few weeks.

Wow! You’re roaring ahead. From what I’ve seen so far, I don’t think anything in the manual is going to surprise me. Today I even took to zooming in on photos of Venturas to try and understand one particular part.

 

As for why my progress is a little on the slow side, this might explain it. 🫤 Thankfully, I finally lost the sling yesterday, so things should be a little easier from now on. 

[Christin]

Feel free to call me for any questions. 

Left wing ready to get some fuel tanks in ✌️

[Christin]

And hope your arm gets better soon. That would make life very hard

[Marty_d]

10 hours ago, Christin said:

Feel free to call me for any questions. 

Left wing ready to get some fuel tanks in ✌️

Good stuff Christin... glad to see you build by "die book"!  😆

[IBob]

Hopefully dey got a natif English speaker to translate Die Ventura Book.........)

[Marty_d]

I thought you needed a native Italian speaker to translate the Savannah book!

[sfGnome]

OK, a question for the Sav/Ventura builders out there (the aspect I'm about to query is the same for both builds as far as I can see).

 

On the side of the fin is an access panel, held in place by rivnuts. Between the rivnuts are standard rivets (ie rivnut, rivet, rivnut, rivet, etc). Now, as these all sit proud of the tail skin, this means that the access panel will likewise be sitting away from the tail by a mm or so. What's more, as the rivnuts are slightly thinner than the rivets, this means that the panel will scallop as it passes over the rivets.

 

Is this a problem, or am I just worrying too much? Should I use c'sunk rivets under the access panel, or is it ok as it (appears to be) designed?

[Kyle Communications]

I dont recall it being a problem on my Sav

[IBob]

The Savannah manual calls for countersunk A4 rivets fitted flush there.

Edited August 30 by IBob

[sfGnome]

1 hour ago, IBob said:

The Savannah manual calls for countersunk A4 rivets fitted flush there.

Thanks. The Ventura manual (a paragon of brevity), just says "Install the rear top skin UV026 and then the nose skin UV002". That's it. No mention of the rivnuts or countersinking or any such useful advice. In fact, you have to look forward to the much later chapter where the tail is attached to the fuselage to see a picture where it is clear that there must be rivnuts... 🙄

[IBob]

sfG for my Sav build, I found it useful to put the parts listing (with it's exploded diagrams) into a separate manual, so that I could have both that and the build manual open at the same time.
I also benefited hugely from build pics posted by others on this site....so much so at times that I also had an old laptop on the bench where I could look at the pics.

Also in the first part of the build there was another builder in the area: initially I was ahead of him and he would ask me about stuff, then I took a break and he got ahead so I was calling him.
I also messaged Mark Kyle on occasions, and he was always helpful. And finally I would bounce stuff off the then Australian agent, who was hugely knowledgeable. But I didn't bother him unless all else failed.

All of which is to say I think it is far harder if you are working in isolation. And much easier (and less error prone) if you are in contact with other builders.........

[IBob]

PS well done spotting them proud rivets!

And...I actually wrote to ICP more recently about the Savannah manual.....endeavouring to point out that translation is best done by native speakers (in fact, prior to the interweb, professional translators translated only INTO their native language). To which I received a polite reply from the technical manager........in broken English.

Well..........I tried.........(

[sfGnome]

Oh, it gets better. The manual does make a big deal that the 2.5mm rivets that hold the captive nuts in place must be countersunk, but neglects to note that two other nearby rivets also must be. If you haven’t looked many chapters ahead to find what mounts against that area, then you’ll be drilling those rivets out again one day. I caught this one, but how many of those kind of things am I going to miss? Lucky I’m not a fast worker… 😛

[Christin]

Haha, yeah,  Bruce, I'm feeling you. 

I had the same. I'm in contact with Italy fairly frequently about issues like that. 

Does anyone have suggestions about CHEAP landing and strobe light options? I don't t really want to spend thousands of dollars on lights if I can avoid it, as I'm way over budget already anyway. Also there doesn't seem to be any wiring included, nor can I find a pitot pipe. Any suggestions on which wiring cables have to be used?

Thanks in advance. 

[IBob]

Christin, I have old style discharge tube wingtip strobes, ordered with my kit when I knew no better.

But I would not go that way again as they are relatively useless in daylight.

Following fatal midairs here, especially one at our local field with the reports and studies that then raised, there is an increased realisation of just how challenging 'see and be seen' actually is.
I hear you on the budget, but it is not something I would be looking to economise on.

As an aside to that: we are taught that effective visual scanning can only be done by shifting the sight in a series of steps, pausing at each step to process.
In reality, how many pilots actually fly like this? I must have sat next to dozens of pilots over the years, and I can't say I have ever seen this in action: the most I have ever seen is periodic sweeping checks. Anyone?

Edited September 1 by IBob

[sfGnome]

How to get depressed quickly. In the latest Kitplanes magazine annual roundup of kits, the ‘beginner’ build time for a Ventura is listed as 400 hours. I’m up to 380 and I’ve only just started on the fuselage… 🫣

 

p.s. I’m not really bothered; I just found it amusing. I know I like to take things slowly, but there’s no way a beginner is going to get anywhere near finished in 400 hours!

[rgmwa]

Don’t worry. Vans say you can build an RV-12 in about 900 hrs. It took me nearly twice that but who cares! 

[IBob]

sfG I can't speak for the Ventura, but for the Savannah I've come across two numbers: 400hrs and 700hrs.
It would be really interesting to know where they came from, as an ex-airforce sheetmetal worker here took about 1700hrs on his. And while I did not log the hours, mine would easily have taken that long too.