Someone mind casting their eyes on this clip?

[flying dog]

Accident "videos" have come a long way from.... a long time ago.

 

But would someone mind watching this?

 

 

 

Airbus A300.   Mentioned 43 seconds into the clip.

 

Is it just me being anal but that's not an A300.

 

They have 4 engines - yes?

 

Ok, further digging by me says no.

 

So which early airbus had 4 engines?

(putting aside the 380)

And the 340

 

I thought - now obviously wrongly - that the 300 (original one) had 4 engines.

 

Edited June 20 by flying dog

[facthunter]

The A 340 is the one that has 4 engines. I've flown an A 300 B4 which is  the same as that one. Applying big rudder inputs like was done there will break the fin right off. Some pilots about that time had the idea THAT extreme manoeuvre would help sort something out I can't see what. but the yawing inertia overloads the  fin and then you're in deep trouble. The circumstances of that crash were fully investigated at the time..  The University of U tube often doesn't get the details exactly correct.  Nev

[flying dog]

Thanks.

I wonder why/how I got the theory/idea that the A300 had 4 engines.

Oh well.  Live and learn.

[facthunter]

Should be easy to look up. The 340 was for long flights long before the TWO engines got relaxed  requirements/restrictions. I think it was called ESOPs' ..   Nev

[flying dog]

Yeah, well that was kind of a "rub" for me.

 

I'm not sure in the age of Airbus.

 

But "way back when" if you did over water flights you needed > 2 engines for redundancy.

 

So being the time line for airbus was:

300

310 (and so on)

320

330

340

I would have thought the 300 was their early 4 engine job until the restrictions lifted.

[facthunter]

The 340 was about the same pax capacity as the A300. I doubt there was a lot of them made. "Suitable" alternate has nothing to do with overwater. Land or water it's a ranging exercise.. The A300  as designated..  NEVER had 4 engines. The wings and fuselage would not be a lot different however. Both are twin aisle. The first Airbuses in Australia were in 1981. reg VH TAA and I trained on that one in France.  When the first two courses finished we all flew back in it  to Australia with a few other extra Hangers on. Later I think Compass flew the A300.600 ER. .  Nev

[flying dog]

Ok.   Thanks.

 

I was wrong.

 

As usual.  😉

 

[facthunter]

I wouldn't fret on it. It's not an exam question.  I think the first Airbus demo came here in the early 70's Commanded By a J.B Phillips and HE did MY actual  first flying in the Airbus at Toulouse-Blagnac, L' Aerogare Ancien. Nev

[Litespeed]

It's called ETOPS.

 

Which stands for.....Engine Turns Or Passengers Swim. 😶‍🌫️

[Litespeed]

 Bit of history.

 

 

This guy is a Swedish 737 Captain.

[flying dog]

His channel is pretty good.

 

I've watched a few/lots of them.

[facthunter]

Just type in ETOPS. It's a permit to take more risks as twin engined planes are the most economic except for single engined planes. All  about saving money as jet engines became very reliable. For  a ' high bypass jet twin to fly on one it has to be quite overpowered on two and has to lose a lot of altitude if it fails in cruise. This is for Jet engined thinking not pistons where the remaining engine is more likely to fail at higher power settings so you always go for the NEAREST place you can land on with them. Nev

[flying dog]

Well, sorry, since it has kinda come up.

 

I seem to remember that "in the early days" jets that flew over water - for any substantial distance had to have THREE engines.

There was that accident with a two engine jet that flew over water and kept their APU running.

 

Alas they crashed and burnt because something happened to the APU and it disintegrated, and took the rest of the plane with it.

 

So as a result - like with the 707 - the 300 (being the first of their fleet) was a 4 engine to get around that.

 

I'm not sure the full story with why 3 engine planes weren't as popular, but if airbus were going for WIDE BODY: Three engine may not have been enough.

 

But - alas - I am wrong.

 

But could/would you elaborate on that bit about the flying over water minimum requirement to the best of your understanding?

 

[facthunter]

Twin Aisle IS wide Body. An APU can be kept running in some planes if one of the engine driven generators is US. This can be done in a DC9. It's about having a capable electrical power supply. Over water or land makes no difference except you carry life rafts and the things you put around your neck and inflate when you are outside. Landing off field is not generally considered  safe enough but if you have no other option  do it OR ditch in water as appropriate. A RAT. RAM AIR Turbine provides emergency electric and/or Hydraulic power when the engines can't. You'd have no anti icing because that comes from engine Bleed Air. The centre engine on a 3 engine set up is usually less efficient. Nev

Edited June 22 by facthunter

[flying dog]

Ok, thanks.

 

There was an "AirCrash Investigation" (Early one from memory) about a small plane flying somewhere in Europe (Norway maybe) and they were flying over water.

The plane wasn't supposed to be allowed to do it, but the flight crew turned on the APU as a "third engine" - not exactly the claim, but for simplicity - alas halfway over the water the vibration from the APU destroyed the vertical stab' and the plane went down.

 

 

Edited June 22 by flying dog
tidy up stuff

[flying dog]

Aircrash investigation Season 7 Episode 3

Best of my knowledge.

 

On 8 September 1989, Partnair Flight 394 loses control, breaks up in mid-air, and crashes into the North Sea, killing all 55 people on board. The aircraft's vertical stabilizer had vibrated loose during flight due to excessive wear on sub-standard bolts, sleeves, and pins that had been illegally sold as "aircraft-grade."

Edited June 22 by flying dog

[facthunter]

FD most Wednesdays I see a bloke in a pilot group   who has more hours in command of the A 340 than most  could ever get if you want any specific questions asked.   I don't think they sold lots of them as they were for a Niche market. The A300 is the First of the "AIRBUS" Line.  Parts for them were made in about 4 countries and assembled at Toulouse (France) .  Nev