Transponder ADSB

[skippydiesel]

I am hoping that a knowledgeable person can explain to me the following (in simple terms):

 

I have a Trig TT22 transponder - in my ignorance I understood it to be ADS -B  Out. Seems I am mistaken about the Out part.

 

The specifications for my Trig say "1090ES ADS-B Out capable" - does this mean that something need to be added/enabled, to have Out? 

[RossK]

My limited understanding of this is;

1090ES is a US Standard for ADSB

The Trig TT-22 meets the Standard.

You'll need to connect a compatible GPS source to the Trig and an ADSB antenna for it to broadcast ADSB out.

AQ_ADS-B_DEC16.pdf

[skippydiesel]

Thanks RossK,

 

"1090ES ADS-B Out capable"  - so the word "capable" does not mean  that Out is activated? 

 

From the pdf you kindly supplied-

 

"The 1090MHz system is a simple one-way transmission of data from the aircraft (ADS-B OUT) to ground stations, which simply listen to transmissions and forward them to ATC systems."

 

My understanding - My Trig is broadcasting Out?

[RossK]

My understanding, without reading the Trig manual is you need to connect the Trig to a GPS source before it can broadcast out.

I'd assume there is something in the setup settings to tell it to broadcast once it has recognised a GPS input.

[skippydiesel]

So what additional capability does Out confer to an ADS -B , S transponder? 

 

It already gives -  location, ID, altitude

[Red]

You simply need to connect any GPS Source that has NMEA out capability to the XPDR, its one wire and a ground

As to what capability it gives you...it allows anyone with an ADSB in capability to accurately see your position, height and registration so handy for traffic avoidance.

I have it enabled on my Trig and also use a a traffic detection unit that picks up ADSB as well as as Mode C/S and flarm

 

 

edit, you may be thinking oh well if my traffic detection thingy picks up mode S then the whole ADSB thing gives me nothing extra except registration which is not needed...this is not the case, the traffic units that pick up Mode C/S can only give a very vague position/altitude reading base on stuff like signal strngth or multilateration, whereas ADSB is giving out  Data from GPS so accurate height, position and speed

Edited August 23 by Red

[Blueadventures]

7 hours ago, RossK said:

My limited understanding of this is;

1090ES is a US Standard for ADSB

The Trig TT-22 meets the Standard.

You'll need to connect a compatible GPS source to the Trig and an ADSB antenna for it to broadcast ADSB out.

AQ_ADS-B_DEC16.pdf 809.71 kB · 5 downloads

Thats right Ross; I saw and spoke to them at Oshkosh.  Trig are nice kit.

[BurnieM]

Look like you can use the Trig TN72 gps but only outside class C ? airspace.

 

Otherwise you need Trig TN70 gps at over $4K.

 

Just reading their doco, never installed one.

 

 

Edited August 23 by BurnieM

[BurnieM]

Looks like you also need a Trig TA70 or TA50 gps antenna.

 

Trig have TA14 or TA12 ADS-B antennas but looks like you can use other brands as well.

 

So you need;

TT22 transponder

Trig GPS position source

Trig GPS antenna and

ADS-B antenna

 

Edited August 23 by BurnieM

[Red]

5 hours ago, BurnieM said:

Looks like you also need a Trig TA70 or TA50 gps antenna.

 

Trig have TA14 or TA12 ADS-B antennas but looks like you can use other brands as well.

 

So you need;

TT22 transponder

Trig GPS position source

Trig GPS antenna and

ADS-B antenna

 

I've no idea what the regs are in Australia over here only certified aircraft need to use the kit you mention,  but any GPS that has an NMEA output will work.  I have used a Garmin 496 In the past but now its fed by a 10 quid chinese usb dongle GPS.

 

Also you don't need an ADSB Antennae the transponder squits it out via the existing transponder antenna

[RFguy]

Red said : "You simply need to connect any GPS Source that has NMEA out capability to the XPDR, its one wire and a ground"

 

NO ! You must use a TSO certified GPS. You are not permitted to use "Any GPS"

Burnie's post is correct"https://www.recreationalflying.com/forums/topic/39965-transponder-adsb/?do=findComment&comment=568941&_rid=11148"

 

AND - the location of the GPS antenna must fall inside zones spelt out in on of the advisory circulars.

basically between the cabin and the tail fin.

Edited August 23 by RFguy

[Freizeitpilot]

GPS antenna installation like this ?

[RFguy]

what's up and what is down ???. I presume that's your ADSB transmit antenna, underneath the empanage. 

Edited August 23 by RFguy

[Freizeitpilot]

Yes - blade ADS-B antenna underneath fuselage about midway to tail.

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, RFguy said:

Red said : "You simply need to connect any GPS Source that has NMEA out capability to the XPDR, its one wire and a ground"

 

NO ! You must use a TSO certified GPS. You are not permitted to use "Any GPS"

Burnie's post is correct"https://www.recreationalflying.com/forums/topic/39965-transponder-adsb/?do=findComment&comment=568941&_rid=11148"

 

AND - the location of the GPS antenna must fall inside zones spelt out in on of the advisory circulars.

basically between the cabin and the tail fin.

Hi RF,

I have Dynon Skyview system/GPS and GPS enhanced Ipad/OzRunways. Antenna for both on glare shield. Transponder, blade type, antenna mounted below cockpit. Any of these contenders for ADSB-S Out?

[kgwilson]

As far as I know there are many Transponders that are ADSB Out capable but must be fitted with an extended squitter and have a TSOed GPS and antenna installed, usually another box connected to the transponder. A bloke at our airfield had his aircraft fitted. Cost was about 6k from memory & that is without ADSB IN.

[RFguy]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Hi RF,

I have Dynon Skyview system/GPS and GPS enhanced Ipad/OzRunways. Antenna for both on glare shield. Transponder, blade type, antenna mounted below cockpit. Any of these contenders for ADSB-S Out?

I do not think so. . It is really important the GPS antenna gets mounted with an unobstructed view of the whole sky

[BurnieM]

Its pretty typical for GPSs built into EFISs to not be an approved position source for ADS-B transponders.

Garmins G3X and G5 efis built in gps can be used for cross country navigation and time but not as a ADS-B position source.

 

I would talk to a Trig dealer and see what you are allowed to use the Trig TN72 gps (about $800 plus antenna) for in Australia.

 

On other forums a few references to weak signals from Trig TA50 gps antennas and new TA50 antennas needing to be replaced.

Looks like you can use other brand gps antennas with the same specs.

 

Side note

Dynon efis do not use a gps antenna but a combined gps receiver/antenna so you you need to use their product for a Dynon efis.

 

Edited August 24 by BurnieM

[Red]

9 hours ago, RFguy said:

Red said : "You simply need to connect any GPS Source that has NMEA out capability to the XPDR, its one wire and a ground"

 

NO ! You must use a TSO certified GPS. You are not permitted to use "Any GPS"

Burnie's post is correct"https://www.recreationalflying.com/forums/topic/39965-transponder-adsb/?do=findComment&comment=568941&_rid=11148"

 

AND - the location of the GPS antenna must fall inside zones spelt out in on of the advisory circulars.

basically between the cabin and the tail fin.

Read my post again, I said I don't know your regs and didn't say this was allowed, I know hat actually works though.

I was an early adopter of ADSB and was involved in the UK testing of uncertified fitments 

[fallowdeer]

Trig does the talking here.

 

SIL and SDA can be configured for your application be it just TABS or full ADSB out for homebuilt microlight experimental etc.

 

TT21,TN72 and TA50 very popular in NZ for the above aircraft categories. Fully compliant for operations in controlled airspace in NZ.

https://trig-avionics.com/product/tn72-gps-receiver/ 

[Red]

 SIL setting tells recievers the level of integrity which also differentiates between certified and uncertified kit, I'm getting the impression that everyone is talking about just the certified side.

[skippydiesel]

6 hours ago, RFguy said:

I do not think so. . It is really important the GPS antenna gets mounted with an unobstructed view of the whole sky

Both GPS antenna have an almost 360 degree unobstructed view of sky.

[fallowdeer]

Hi Skippy

 

If your Dynon GPS is the SV-GPS-2020 then that meets the mandate for entry to controlled airspace. The previous  SV-GPS-250 do not.

 

Depends whether you want to enter controlled airspace or just want TABS level performance.

[BurnieM]

29 minutes ago, fallowdeer said:

Hi Skippy

 

If your Dynon GPS is the SV-GPS-2020 then that meets the mandate for entry to controlled airspace. The previous  SV-GPS-250 do not.

 

Depends whether you want to enter controlled airspace or just want TABS level performance.

Que ?

Only if he has a Dynon transponder.

 

He has a Trig TN22

 

[fallowdeer]

Trig manufactures com radios and transponders for Dynon.  There are some software differences but large degrees of compatibility.

 

The Skyview system also has serial ports so many other avionics can be “connected.”  When I recently  installed my Dynon Skyview I integrated the Trig TY91 com radio with the Skyview so it can be controlled from the screen, frequencies tuned from the airport identifier page that sort of thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24 by fallowdeer
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