Midair Oakdale area 26 October 2024 - Fatal injuries reported

[Roscoe]

  On 30/10/2024 at 8:20 PM, Bosi72 said:

..and not only the aircraft insurance, but personal insurance as well. Mike is probably surprised to see TNV transmitting Adsb 🙂, but this is my personal Skyecho which I bring whenever flying in an non-Adsb aircraft.

 

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How do you get the speed and alt?

I have Skyecho, and when i tap the plane, it just shows callsign and track

[kgwilson]

It is all in the software of the system you are using to interface to the SE2. The SE2 broadcasts (and receives) GPS location, barometric altitude AMSL, Aircraft Rego and some other codes. The receiving software calculates speed and direction of travel as it receives this data constantly.

[Roscoe]

  On 30/10/2024 at 9:05 PM, kgwilson said:

It is all in the software of the system you are using to interface to the SE2. The SE2 broadcasts (and receives) GPS location, barometric altitude AMSL, Aircraft Rego and some other codes. The receiving software calculates speed and direction of travel as it receives this data constantly.

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Thanks Kev

To save thread drift, I have posted another query in the Instruments:Avionics Forum which you may be able to help with

[djpacro]

  On 30/10/2024 at 7:07 AM, kgwilson said:

Most GA ADSB equipped aircraft have ADSB Out only as that is the only mandatory requirement and the cost to install ADSB IN is very high. Plenty of GA jockeys around our aerodrome have installed a SE2 with ADSB Out disabled. Again this is required to prevent ghosting but it is the simplest and least expensive way of getting ADSB information in the cockpit via a linked EFIS like Oz Runways, Avplan, Enroute FP etc running on a phone or tablet & connected via WiFi.

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If only using the ADSB-IN function then this is much cheaper by the same manufacturer of the SkyEcho. PingUSB - uAvionix It works very well.

[skippydiesel]

  On 30/10/2024 at 9:20 PM, djpacro said:

If only using the ADSB-IN function then this is much cheaper by the same manufacturer of the SkyEcho. PingUSB - uAvionix It works very well.

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Contemplating purchasing a SkyEcho BUT have Mode S (OUT) would have to disable the SE OUT according to UAvionix;

 

"In addition, they must not be allowed to transmit when (a) in VFR flight at or above FL290; or (b) concurrently with a Mode S transponder that is also transmitting ADS‑B. An EC device may be operated in Australia concurrently with a Mode A/C, or a Mode S transponder (other than one that is transmitting ADS-B). UAT is NOT used nor permitted in Australia".

 

I would be financially better off with a "Ping" (IN) - the question is - will I get as good/much information from the Ping???

[Garfly]

  On 30/10/2024 at 11:45 PM, skippydiesel said:

Contemplating purchasing a SkyEcho BUT have Mode S (OUT) would have to disable the SE OUT according to UAvionix;

 

"In addition, they must not be allowed to transmit when (a) in VFR flight at or above FL290; or (b) concurrently with a Mode S transponder that is also transmitting ADS‑B. An EC device may be operated in Australia concurrently with a Mode A/C, or a Mode S transponder (other than one that is transmitting ADS-B). UAT is NOT used nor permitted in Australia".

 

I would be financially better off with a "Ping" (IN) - the question is - will I get as good/much information from the Ping???

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Yes, Skippy the Ping gives you the same info as the SE2 and in the same format (at least within reasonable range of your own ship).

 

But anyway, not all Mode S transponders transmit ADS-B so if yours does not send the "extended squitter" bit, as I understand it, you'd be good to go with using an SE2 to its fullest. That way you would have both the poor man's ADS-B IN/OUT solution as well as the rich man's proper transponder. That means you could continue to operate in Class-E, you would have the benefit of surveillance by Centre, you will be more likely to be detectable by TCAS and you will probably, when the time comes, be entitled to request clearance to transit controlled airspace, even in an RAAus craft on an RAAus ticket.

(If I have anything wrong, I trust I will be corrected.)

Edited October 31, 2024 by Garfly

[Roscoe]

So back to topic, the accident, from what i gather, the Cessna did not appear on flightaware or adsb exchange

[skippydiesel]

  On 31/10/2024 at 12:18 AM, Roscoe said:

So back to topic, the accident, from what i gather, the Cessna did not appear on flightaware or adsb exchange

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AND  as far as we know, at this time , in contact with The Oaks/Camden/Sydney

[kgwilson]

  On 30/10/2024 at 11:45 PM, skippydiesel said:

Contemplating purchasing a SkyEcho BUT have Mode S (OUT) would have to disable the SE OUT according to UAvionix;

 

"In addition, they must not be allowed to transmit when (a) in VFR flight at or above FL290; or (b) concurrently with a Mode S transponder that is also transmitting ADS‑B. An EC device may be operated in Australia concurrently with a Mode A/C, or a Mode S transponder (other than one that is transmitting ADS-B). UAT is NOT used nor permitted in Australia".

 

I would be financially better off with a "Ping" (IN) - the question is - will I get as good/much information from the Ping???

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Mode S Transponder is not ADSB even if it does have Extended Squitter capability. This requires an additional ADSB piece of hardware, certified GPS and an external antenna professionally installed. Pretty expensive at around 5-6k. SE2 will work fine with your transponder. You only disable ADSB out if the Mode S transponder is ADSB out enabled & without the rest of the bits it isn't.

Edited October 31, 2024 by kgwilson

[facthunter]

In all of this remember the safest and easiest form of separation is VERTICALLY. and for us 100 feet is enough.   500 is better. Nev

[flying dog]

A suggestion would be to look at the aircraft and see if there are prop strike marks.

 

On which plane and where.

 

That would go a long way to determine who hit who.

 

(Though that is dependent if such strike marks exist and are found)

[skippydiesel]

There is a witness, a child (age?) who supposedly saw a wing tip to wing tip contact, between the two aircraft. 

The relative location of the two crash sites, would suggest, if the child is correct, the aircraft may have been traveling in opposite directions.

[graham brown]

  On 31/10/2024 at 9:33 PM, skippydiesel said:

There is a witness, a child (age?) who supposedly saw a wing tip to wing tip contact, between the two aircraft. 

The relative location of the two crash sites, would suggest, if the child is correct, the aircraft may have been traveling in opposite directions.

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If you see the other aircraft and you think you are going to collide, push or pull but don’t turn as you increase your chances of hitting by increasing the vertical area. This what we know in Gliding where we fly close sometimes to stay in the lift.

[BrendAn]

  On 31/10/2024 at 9:33 PM, skippydiesel said:

There is a witness, a child (age?) who supposedly saw a wing tip to wing tip contact, between the two aircraft. 

The relative location of the two crash sites, would suggest, if the child is correct, the aircraft may have been traveling in opposite directions.

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The info I got would have come from an examination of the wreckage.

[BrendAn]

  On 31/10/2024 at 10:14 PM, BrendAn said:

The info I got would have come from an examination of the wreckage.

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Even that is a lot of guess work to I suppose.

[skippydiesel]

  On 31/10/2024 at 10:14 PM, BrendAn said:

The info I got would have come from an examination of the wreckage.

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 What information have you got?  I think the investigators were still on site Wednesday possibly also yesterday.

[facthunter]

The  nature and extent of contact marks are pretty reliable evidence.   Nev

[Blueadventures]

  On 31/10/2024 at 11:24 PM, facthunter said:

The  nature and extent of contact marks are pretty reliable evidence.   Nev

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Agree, the wreckage pieces will have dents, gouges, scratches, etc that will be identified as in air origins rather than impact with the ground.  The investigation experts will gain such evidence.

[skippydiesel]

  On 31/10/2024 at 10:14 PM, BrendAn said:

The info I got would have come from an examination of the wreckage.

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I read this, to say BrendAn has the information. Not an observation on how it may be derived.

[coljones]

  On 30/10/2024 at 9:20 PM, djpacro said:

If only using the ADSB-IN function then this is much cheaper by the same manufacturer of the SkyEcho. PingUSB - uAvionix It works very well.

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PingUSB requires a USB connection to your EFB which "may" preclude connecting your EFB to external power (battery or cigarette lighter) or sharing ADSB-In with your trusty co-pilot over WiFi.  SkyEcho is a much better investment as it is much more flexible.  Admittedly using a PingUSB enables a EFB WiFi connection to your phone for hot-spotting for mobile data and there is probably a $20 dongle from Cygnet that allows the mixing of the USB port on the EFB for both power and data.

[BurnieM]

  On 01/11/2024 at 3:52 AM, coljones said:

PingUSB requires a USB connection to your EFB which "may" preclude connecting your EFB to external power (battery or cigarette lighter) or sharing ADSB-In with your trusty co-pilot over WiFi.  SkyEcho is a much better investment as it is much more flexible.  Admittedly using a PingUSB enables a EFB WiFi connection to your phone for hot-spotting for mobile data and there is probably a $20 dongle from Cygnet that allows the mixing of the USB port on the EFB for both power and data.

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I believe pingUSB uses the USB port for power, either cig lighter or powerbank and connects to your EFB tablet via wifi.

 

However a few people commenting that it is not robust with some failing at less than 12 months.

 

[BrendAn]

  On 31/10/2024 at 11:11 PM, skippydiesel said:

 What information have you got?  I think the investigators were still on site Wednesday possibly also yesterday.

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i will not disclose that .

[IBob]

  On 01/11/2024 at 3:52 AM, coljones said:

PingUSB requires a USB connection to your EFB which "may" preclude connecting your EFB to external power (battery or cigarette lighter) or sharing ADSB-In with your trusty co-pilot over WiFi.  SkyEcho is a much better investment as it is much more flexible.  Admittedly using a PingUSB enables a EFB WiFi connection to your phone for hot-spotting for mobile data and there is probably a $20 dongle from Cygnet that allows the mixing of the USB port on the EFB for both power and data.

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coljones, the Ping USB does not require a USB connection to your EFB. It chats to your EFB via WiFi.
As BurnieM states above, the ping USB port is only a power connection.

Edited November 1, 2024 by IBob

[IanR]

  On 01/11/2024 at 4:26 AM, BurnieM said:

I believe pingUSB uses the USB port for power, either cig lighter or powerbank and connects to your EFB tablet via wifi.

 

However a few people commenting that it is not robust with some failing at less than 12 months.

 

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I use a PingUSB - it does use USB for power only and connects to ipad via Wifi. It would not be suitable if you dont have a sim in the ipad and expect to use Wifi to connect to phone hotspot. I love it but sometimes its a little sensitive to position in the aircraft relative to the ipad. We flew about 12 hours on a trip last weekend with no issues.

[coljones]

  On 01/11/2024 at 3:52 AM, coljones said:

PingUSB requires a USB connection to your EFB which "may" preclude connecting your EFB to external power (battery or cigarette lighter) or sharing ADSB-In with your trusty co-pilot over WiFi.  SkyEcho is a much better investment as it is much more flexible.  Admittedly using a PingUSB enables a EFB WiFi connection to your phone for hot-spotting for mobile data and there is probably a $20 dongle from Cygnet that allows the mixing of the USB port on the EFB for both power and data.

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Mea culpa - Col, RTFM 8-(. ignore the rubbish above.  I was thinking of another dongle.

 

but while you can connect WiFi to the PingUSB you can't hotspot at the same time. Same with Skyecho.

 

But it does look neat for connecting to a PC as a Hub or Server.