facthunter Posted October 27 Posted October 27 That's not the frequency situation at the place where this happened. Nev
Roscoe Posted October 28 Posted October 28 2 minutes ago, facthunter said: That's not the frequency situation at the place where this happened. Nev Hi Nev Just to clarify. The Oaks uses 126.7 CTAF Camden twr use 120.1 Syd Centre is 124.55 Most aircraft are on Syd Centre when outside the vicinity of The Oaks. So it depends on the type of operation being flown as to what frequency you are on. Camden also have Gliders to the south of their airport so its not uncommon to check in with camden twr when transitting. You really have to think and plan carefully in that whole airspace 2 1
Garfly Posted October 28 Posted October 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, F10 said: .....I can't help feeling ADSB is a slight knee jerk....regular blind calls and direct comms with other traffic, is essential. // Vis out of high wings is a problem. F10, would you care to expand on that "knee-jerk" comment (especially in light of the frequency issues we're hearing about)? Edited October 28 by Garfly
mkennard Posted October 28 Posted October 28 It's going to be interesting what recommendations ATSB comes up with. I used to have one radio and I could only listen to 1 frequency. Used to be difficult choosing which freq I should listen to inbound to Wedderburn from the west, I would stay on the step and listen to area since they tend to give traffic alerts but not always. Now I changed to the trig and can monitor another frequency. Still a difficult area to transit with inbound aircraft, gliders and local traffic. 2
FlyBoy1960 Posted October 28 Posted October 28 How could the "72 year old" still be a captain for Qantas ? Way past retirement age ? 1
Roscoe Posted October 28 Posted October 28 3 minutes ago, FlyBoy1960 said: How could the "72 year old" still be a captain for Qantas ? Way past retirement age ? Not uncommon for Retired Airline Pilots to still be referred to as Capt. The photo of Capt Criddle shows the older style uniform which Qantas replaced a few years ago 1
Gazunda61 Posted October 28 Posted October 28 Gary was an active 737 Capt. QANTAS pilots can fly Shorthaul (domestic) to any age as long as they hold a Class 1 medical. Longhaul must stop flying at Age 65 or, like in Gary’s case, transfer to Shortaul to continue flying. 1 7
Methusala Posted October 28 Posted October 28 This discussion has some intersection with the "which radio calls" thread. 1 1
F10 Posted October 28 Posted October 28 42 minutes ago, Garfly said: F10, would you care to expand on that "knee-jerk" comment (especially in light of the frequency issues we're hearing about)? I think ADSB hints at treating the symptom, not the cause. As I said, East and West Sale work fine with everyone within 20 miles on 118.3, yes traffic is light, but then the use of reporting points and traffic corridors, getting traffic at least streamed in the same direction, is another way to skin this cat. Also, being forced by law to install over $5000 of ADSB in my aircraft, will result in a “For Sale” sign hanging from the prop. How much is a life worth…well yes, no argument…..Still has the for sale sign up. 1
BrendAn Posted October 28 Posted October 28 2 hours ago, F10 said: Obviously you need to be on the same frequency, didn’t think I needed to mention that. If you are operating in a CTAF, you should be on that CTAF frequency. For example both East and West Sale CTAF, (in that 20 NM zone), is all 118.3. All good if you can understand what they are saying. There seem to be a lot of aircraft with bad radios out there.
kgwilson Posted October 28 Posted October 28 1 hour ago, F10 said: I think ADSB hints at treating the symptom, not the cause. As I said, East and West Sale work fine with everyone within 20 miles on 118.3, yes traffic is light, but then the use of reporting points and traffic corridors, getting traffic at least streamed in the same direction, is another way to skin this cat. Also, being forced by law to install over $5000 of ADSB in my aircraft, will result in a “For Sale” sign hanging from the prop. How much is a life worth…well yes, no argument…..Still has the for sale sign up. All you need is a tablet or even a phone running Ozrunways or Avplan and there are free Nav systems as well plus a Skyecho 2 at a rebated cost of $500.00 and you have ADSB In and Out. Range varies from 20NM to 40 NM so you can see every other aircraft with ADSB out at least in your general direction of travel. There is no requirement to spend thousands just to get a TSOed system integrated with your transponder. 3 1
onetrack Posted October 28 Posted October 28 An interesting feature of MAC's is the number of MAC's where a student has been under instruction. Having a CFI on board is no guarantee of increased safety, and an AOPA report states that having a CFI on board and instructing, actually increases the risk of an aircraft crash. In nearly every case, the CFI's attention is on the student, the controls and the instruments, and he/she's not looking out for other aircraft - and often, the student isn't either, as he's focussed on learning new skills. The AOPA report states that MACs (in the U.S.) accounted for 16 percent of dual and 20 percent of solo fatal instructional accidents. I find it interesting that the last two MAC's here have both involved mature, high-hour pilots with with outstanding levels of experience. 1 2 2
flying dog Posted October 28 Posted October 28 I so much agree with you onetrack. The CFI is testing you and he is concentrating on doing that. When near airports this can lead to task overload on both parties. More of the Swiss cheese holes lining up. 2 1
facthunter Posted October 28 Posted October 28 2 events is not enough to base stats on but the management of the Plane situationally is still the first priority... IF the student is prepared (trained) a check is a formality. I have noticed a few ex airline people get caught with Airframe icing in light aircraft. None of those aircraft cope with it whereas all jet aircraft do. and you get spoiled.. .Nev 1 1
flying dog Posted October 28 Posted October 28 Facthunter..... Yes, I agree. But it is/are these things which contribute to things happening. It is not THE cause of the accident, but they are factors which align the holes in the cheese. That with other factors allow nasty things to happen. 7 minutes ago, facthunter said: None of those aircraft cope with it whereas all jet aircraft do Well..... There are time when it does make the big plane crash... (Oh, I miss AirCrash Investigations) 1
facthunter Posted October 28 Posted October 28 Only when some thing stupid is done. These aircraft have to prove they have effective icing prevention and control to be certified. Frozen Aircraft have to be deiced before attempting flight. Nev 1
Methusala Posted October 28 Posted October 28 (edited) Mid-air is my greatest fear in flying and naturally so. I've spoken to ga pilots who love IFR because of the awareness given through air control. Not fool proof ref the Kingair accident near Mansfield. See and avoid needs radio and ADSB assistance. This is an extreme example when a hugely experienced ATPL gets caught out. Numbingly sad, Don Edited October 28 by Methusala Correction 1 2
Garfly Posted October 28 Posted October 28 (edited) 6 hours ago, F10 said: I think ADSB hints at treating the symptom, not the cause. By a disease analogy ADSB is, to me, not about treating symptoms nor causes; it's a prophylactic. (And a pretty cheap and effective one, too.) Edited October 28 by Garfly 2
BlurE Posted October 29 Posted October 29 Lots of discussion over on PPRUNE on this one also. Most significantly there is link posted there to an ADSB trace for the Jab in the circuit. Copy: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=7cbc28 You need to expand the 'history' and roll the date back to the 26th. Very sad. 1
flying dog Posted October 29 Posted October 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, BlurE said: You need to expand the 'history' and roll the date back to the 26th. How do I do that - please. Don't worry. Worked it out. For anyone who is interested: Edited October 29 by flying dog
Thruster88 Posted October 29 Posted October 29 It would appear that both aircraft were in the oaks circuit intentionally and became aware of their proximity. Once the turning started only one of the three pilots would have had any chance of seeing the other aircraft. 1
flying dog Posted October 29 Posted October 29 6 minutes ago, Thruster88 said: It would appear that both aircraft were in the oaks circuit intentionally and became aware of their proximity (Not at thruster88) So if the Cessna was in the circuit why wasn't it on the Oaks frequency? 2
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