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Midair Oakdale area 26 October 2024 - Fatal injuries reported


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2 minutes ago, facthunter said:

That's not the  frequency situation at the place where this happened.  Nev

Hi Nev

Just to clarify.

The Oaks uses 126.7 CTAF

 Camden twr use 120.1 

Syd Centre is 124.55

Most aircraft are on Syd Centre when outside the vicinity of The Oaks.

So it depends on the type of operation being flown as to what frequency you are on.

Camden also have Gliders to the south of their airport so its not uncommon to check in with camden twr when transitting.

You really have to think and plan carefully in that whole airspace

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1 hour ago, F10 said:

.....I can't help feeling ADSB is a slight knee jerk....regular blind calls and direct comms with other traffic, is essential.

// Vis out of high wings is a problem. 

F10,  would you care to expand on that "knee-jerk" comment (especially in light of the frequency issues we're hearing about)?

 

 

 

Edited by Garfly
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It's going to be interesting what recommendations ATSB comes up with. I used to have one radio and I could only listen to 1 frequency. Used to be difficult choosing which freq I should listen to inbound to Wedderburn from the west, I would stay on the step and listen to area since they tend to give traffic alerts but not always. Now I changed to the trig and can monitor another frequency. Still a difficult area to transit with inbound aircraft, gliders and local traffic.

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3 minutes ago, FlyBoy1960 said:

How could the "72 year old" still be a captain for Qantas ?     Way past retirement age ?

Not uncommon for Retired Airline Pilots to still be referred to as Capt.

The photo of Capt Criddle shows the older style uniform which Qantas replaced a few years ago

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Gary was an active 737 Capt. QANTAS pilots can fly Shorthaul (domestic) to any age as long as they hold a Class 1 medical.  Longhaul must stop flying at Age 65 or, like in Gary’s case, transfer to Shortaul to continue flying. 

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42 minutes ago, Garfly said:

F10,  would you care to expand on that "knee-jerk" comment (especially in light of the frequency issues we're hearing about)?

 

 

 

I think ADSB hints at treating the symptom, not the cause. As I said, East and West Sale work fine with everyone within 20 miles on 118.3, yes traffic is light, but then the use of reporting points and traffic corridors, getting traffic at least streamed in the same direction, is another way to skin this cat. Also, being forced by law to install over $5000 of ADSB in my aircraft, will result in a “For Sale” sign hanging from the prop. How much is a life worth…well yes, no argument…..Still has the for sale sign up.

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2 hours ago, F10 said:

Obviously you need to be on the same frequency, didn’t think I needed to mention that. If you are operating in a CTAF, you should be on that CTAF frequency. For example both East and West Sale CTAF, (in that 20 NM zone), is all 118.3. 

All good if you can understand what they are saying. There seem to be a lot of aircraft with bad radios out there.

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1 hour ago, F10 said:

I think ADSB hints at treating the symptom, not the cause. As I said, East and West Sale work fine with everyone within 20 miles on 118.3, yes traffic is light, but then the use of reporting points and traffic corridors, getting traffic at least streamed in the same direction, is another way to skin this cat. Also, being forced by law to install over $5000 of ADSB in my aircraft, will result in a “For Sale” sign hanging from the prop. How much is a life worth…well yes, no argument…..Still has the for sale sign up.

All you need is a tablet or even a phone running Ozrunways or Avplan and there are free Nav systems as well plus a Skyecho 2 at a rebated cost of $500.00 and you have ADSB In and Out. Range varies from 20NM to 40 NM so you can see every other aircraft with ADSB out at least in your general direction of travel. There is no requirement to spend thousands just to get a TSOed system integrated with your transponder.

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An interesting feature of MAC's is the number of MAC's where a student has been under instruction. Having a CFI on board is no guarantee of increased safety, and an AOPA report states that having a CFI on board and instructing, actually increases the risk of an aircraft crash.

In nearly every case, the CFI's attention is on the student, the controls and the instruments, and he/she's not looking out for other aircraft - and often, the student isn't either, as he's focussed on learning new skills.

 

The AOPA report states that MACs (in the U.S.) accounted for 16 percent of dual and 20 percent of solo fatal instructional accidents. I find it interesting that the last two MAC's here have both involved mature, high-hour pilots with with outstanding levels of experience.

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I so much agree with you onetrack.

 

The CFI is testing you and he is concentrating on doing that.

 

When near airports this can lead to task overload on both parties.

More of the Swiss cheese holes lining up.

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2 events is not enough to base stats on but  the management of the Plane situationally  is still the first priority... IF the student is prepared (trained) a check is a formality. I have noticed a few ex airline people get caught with Airframe icing in light aircraft. None of those aircraft cope with it whereas all jet aircraft do. and you get spoiled.. .Nev  

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Facthunter.....

 

Yes, I agree.   But it is/are these things which contribute to things happening.

 

It is not THE cause of the accident, but they are factors which align the holes in the cheese.

 

That with other factors allow nasty things to happen.

 

7 minutes ago, facthunter said:

None of those aircraft cope with it whereas all jet aircraft do

Well.....   There are time when it does make the big plane crash...

 

(Oh, I miss AirCrash Investigations)

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Only when some thing stupid is done. These aircraft have to prove they have effective icing prevention and control to be certified. Frozen Aircraft have to be deiced before attempting flight.  Nev

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Mid-air is my greatest fear in flying and naturally so. I've spoken to ga pilots who love IFR because of the awareness given through air control. Not fool proof ref the Kingair accident near Mansfield. See and avoid needs radio and ADSB assistance. This is an extreme example when a hugely experienced ATPL gets  caught out. Numbingly sad, Don 

Edited by Methusala
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6 hours ago, F10 said:

I think ADSB hints at treating the symptom, not the cause. 

By a disease analogy ADSB is, to me, not about treating symptoms nor causes; it's a prophylactic.

(And a pretty cheap and effective one, too.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Garfly
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1 hour ago, BlurE said:

You need to expand the 'history' and roll the date back to the 26th.

How do I do that - please.

 

Don't worry.   Worked it out.

 

For anyone who is interested:

 

Screenshotfrom2024-10-2915-30-12.thumb.png.d9a67dfd7600c09635508c270d1f2379.png

Edited by flying dog
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It would appear that both aircraft were in the oaks circuit intentionally and became aware of their proximity. Once the turning started only one of the three pilots would have had any chance of seeing the other aircraft. 

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6 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

It would appear that both aircraft were in the oaks circuit intentionally and became aware of their proximity

(Not at thruster88)

 

So if the Cessna was in the circuit why wasn't it on the Oaks frequency?

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