Fuel Bladders/Ferry Tanks

[skippydiesel]

Hi All,

 

Anyone have any experience with this recently advertised SkyShop fuel bladder:

 

 

Fuel Bladder 65 Litre   Specially designed for temporary storage fuel, Diesel, avgas, Petrol, chemicals and other liquids. $265   Click here for info or to order Probably made by TurtlePac, Qld. In my case it would have to sit on the passenger seat, but wondering how its filled ??- 65L of fuel is awful heavy to pick up & filling in situ may result in a fuel spill in the cockpit😈

[facthunter]

 About 45 Kg's of fuel. Nev

[skippydiesel]

Wow!! 

 

I guess SkyShop isn't making a financial killing on this product.

 

Is there no long distance flier out there, with experince in this/similar product/system????

 

It may be better, from a handling/weight perspective, to go with the 20L foldable bladders:

At $149.50 they are cheaper/liter capacity, than the bladder/ferry tank.. 

 

Are they safe to carry fuel in cockpit or are they just for getting fuel to the aircraft from service station?😈

[rgmwa]

I have two of the foldable bladders and have carried fuel in the plane but don’t like doing that. In my experience they can leak if the threads on the cap are dry. I didn’t have a problem after I put some lube (Inox) on them, but I only use them now to carry fuel to the plane. They are great for that because they pack away easily. I would use them to carry fuel in the plane if I had no other option. Because they are flexible, they can cope with air pressure fluctuations. I wouldn’t carry fuel in a plastic jerrycan in the cabin.

Edited November 6 by rgmwa

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, rgmwa said:

.................... I would use them to carry fuel in the plane if I had no other option. Because they are flexible, they can cope with air pressure fluctuations. 

Hi rgmwa,

 

Like you, I have no intention to carry fuel, in the aircraft, in the foldable bladder style BUT am interested in your experince/observations when you, on occasion, did;

• My interest is on the effect of reducing atmospheric pressure on a FULL & Part FULL bladder.

The reason for the question is, if I carry say 40 litres (2x bladders) from the servo and say use only 10 L out of one, leaving a full & 1/2 full. Then stow the two bladders in the aircraft and climb to 9500 ft - will all be okay or will one/both bladder(s) be affected to the point of rupturing????

😈

 

 

 

[rgmwa]

Completely full would be OK because the liquid won't expand. When partially full, I just squeeze the bladder a bit before putting the cap on to reduce the volume of air in it. Even without doing that, I'm quite confident the bladder would easily handle any pressure differential at the altitudes we fly, and probably a lot higher. I can recall seeing a video of a full bladder being drop tested onto concrete from something like 30m from memory, so they are pretty tough. 

 

[skippydiesel]

" I can recall seeing a video of a full bladder being drop tested onto concrete from something like 30m from memory, so they are pretty tough. "

 

I know that TurtlePac, Qld, were testing a lot of their bladders this way. I had a conducted tour of their facility some years back - very impressed!

 

Dont know who the manufacturer, of the two I have is. They look the same as the ones from SkyShop and I may have purchased them from the same about 10 years ago.😈

 

 

[rgmwa]

I got mine from Liquid Containment in Qld.  

 

 

[sfGnome]

I used to use the foldable ones (no longer have them, sold with our plane). Never took them up when loaded, but really handy for getting fuel when away from home as they take diddly-squat space in the luggage area when empty. However, do check that you’ve tightened the cap properly before carrying them (full) I someone else’s car! I think my daughter has forgiven me… 🫣

[Moneybox]

I stopped using the plastic jerry cans for two reasons. If we store fuel in the boot of our bus/camper we don't sleep well. The fumes pass right through the plastic. If we use the metal cans then we don't even know they are there.

 

The other reason is that I've had a few expand to the point of splitting and spraying a fine mist of petrol into the air. They blow up like a balloon but for some reason the steel cans keep their form even though they have quite high pressure that is released upon opening.

 

I can't see me ever risking the use of anything plastic in our climate. I can see the value in the layflat bladder for short term use but I wouldn't like to ride beside one loaded with fuel.

[skippydiesel]

So far, I think we all agree that carrying fuel, in 20L fuel bladders, in the aircraft, is not a first choice idea.

 

I guess fetching just the right amount of fuel, from the servo, is always the goal, however I would rather err on the side of full tanks on TO, than under estimate. So as I pointed out, it's conceivable that when on an away from base/home trip, the bladders used to fetch/refuel the aircraft, may not be completely emptied into the aircraft tanks. Your practical options are limited:

• Donate the remaining fuel to some deserving individual.
• Carry the remaining fuel in the cockpit (most small aircraft do not have a separate baggage locker).
• Waste the fuel (don't much go for this).

On plastic "jerry" cans:

My experince with Bunnings Aerospace plastic "jerry" cans, now about 8 years old, is good.

So far; no splits,  they don't leak and I don't carry/store them where fuel smells may impact on me.

I do not store them in direct sunlight but they must get pretty hot at times in the back of my covered ute.

Full containers, do not distort as much as part full, under the influence of diurnal temperature change.

When I empty a container, I try to remember to press in the sides and tighten the cap at the same time , creating a small vacuum. This seems to help maintain the original shape, as opposed to the bulging/distortion which can occur 😈

[facthunter]

Dying in a Burning Aircraft is not the way to go.  Nev

[Moneybox]

20 hours ago, rgmwa said:

Completely full would be OK because the liquid won't expand. When partially full, I just squeeze the bladder a bit before putting the cap on to reduce the volume of air in it. Even without doing that, I'm quite confident the bladder would easily handle any pressure differential at the altitudes we fly, and probably a lot higher. I can recall seeing a video of a full bladder being drop tested onto concrete from something like 30m from memory, so they are pretty tough. 

 

 

I think squeezing all of the air out would eliminate the expansion problem if you just had perhaps half a bladder of fuel left. I've never tried it but I think it would have to reach boiling point to create more vapor. 

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, Moneybox said:

 

I think squeezing all of the air out would eliminate the expansion problem if you just had perhaps half a bladder of fuel left. I've never tried it but I think it would have to reach boiling point to create more vapor. 

I think I read somewhere, that a part full closed petrol container, will vaporise just enough fuel to fill the available space. If it then heats up, the pressure within will rise & it will bulge a (plastic) container.😈

[BrendAn]

10 hours ago, facthunter said:

Dying in a Burning Aircraft is not the way to go.  Nev

 

[BrendAn]

a bit off topic. sorry skip.  but its worth watching to get a first hand account of a fire at 3500 ft.  

[Underwood]

I often travel with 2 x 10 litre plastic fuel cans strapped down in the cockpit, I fill them leaving a small air pocket then compress the cans with my knees till fuel is nearly at top and seal the screw tops

Not advising anyone to do this, but my aircraft's main fuel tanks are 2 x 30 litre plastic containers placed directly behind the 2 seats.

I worry more about the 2 fitted tanks than the spare fuel cans.

 

P.S. I believe its actually Illegal

Edited November 7 by Underwood

[skippydiesel]

I can't imagine carrying extra fuel, in cans/bladder, is illegal, unwise? perhapes. Aircraft have been flown across the Pacific with ferry tanks/bladders many times. Of course there may be negative insurance implications if a claim is lodged.

[Blueadventures]

12 hours ago, Underwood said:

I often travel with 2 x 10 litre plastic fuel cans strapped down in the cockpit, I fill them leaving a small air pocket then compress the cans with my knees till fuel is nearly at top and seal the screw tops

Not advising anyone to do this, but my aircraft's main fuel tanks are 2 x 30 litre plastic containers placed directly behind the 2 seats.

I worry more about the 2 fitted tanks than the spare fuel cans.

 

P.S. I believe its actually Illegal

Probably depends on the type of plastic, performance based no issue with what you have.  Also the Savannah wing tanks as an example are plastic, also performance based no issues.  Must be ok. 

[Moneybox]

I'll only have 60L in the one tank. I've thought about a metal outboard motor tank that can be plugged in and jus flick the pump switch when needed but weight and balance come to play.

[skippydiesel]

27 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

I'll only have 60L in the one tank. I've thought about a metal outboard motor tank that can be plugged in and jus flick the pump switch when needed but weight and balance come to play.

Should be good for an easy 3 .5 hrs endurance plus .5 hr reserve. Dont know what your cruise speed is however at 100 knots, thats 350 NM (648 km) in still air.

 

In general,  the outboard motor tanks, I have seen, are the wrong shape and are relativly heavy.

 

If  your existing duration/range is not enough, I think it likly that an aluminium auxiliary tank could be fitted behind the seat, subject to W&B. Shape of tank can be used to bring weight close to back of seats or as a raised floor in baggage area. Easy to rig up an inflight fuel transfer system (had one on my last aircraft)

Edited November 7 by skippydiesel

[facthunter]

Good plastic strapped down and vented  would be fine. A lot a vehicle tanks are plastic. The plane must be in W&B limits when full and empty.  Nev

[spacesailor]

moneybags.

How does your w&b work.

when your full fuel has correct correct w&b.

Then when at minimum,  the w&b will have moved

Nose heavy with rear tank.

Tail  heavy with ' over your knees ' tank . (Similar to the HummelBird) .

I always wonder if it leads to stalls on the Landing flare .

spacesailor

[Moneybox]

10 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

moneybags.

How does your w&b work.

when your full fuel has correct correct w&b.

Then when at minimum,  the w&b will have moved

Nose heavy with rear tank.

Tail  heavy with ' over your knees ' tank . (Similar to the HummelBird) .

I always wonder if it leads to stalls on the Landing flare .

spacesailor

I've not checked it out however the tank is right up against the back of the seat so there'd be little difference to the balance. The wife and I will only total 125kg so we'll have lots of weight to spare but it's a case of where to put it. 310kg tare weight and max 550kg.

Edited November 7 by Moneybox

[facthunter]

Your basic lack of how W&B works is showing, space. It's REQUIRED to remain within the range of the Stated limits. Otherwise you are flying an unairworthy plane.  Naturally the further things are from the CoG the more the effect.  Nev

Edited November 7 by facthunter
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