SkyEcho 2 - ADSB light doesn't come on...

[kgwilson]

8 hours ago, Bosi72 said:

 

At high level, raw Mode S (non-adsb) data packets contain barometric data vs SkyEcho only sends the GPS data.

However, there are fields in the data packet (in particular DF18) that can tell whether the data is coming from transponder or EC-device.

https://discussions.flightaware.com/t/skyecho2-and-missing-data/87686/

Read responses from obj - FlightAware staff.

 

With regards to adding my aircraft to FR24 database, it is in personal correspondence with FR24 support from July 2020.

 

According to Uavionix the SE2 transmits barometric pressure from its in built barometric altimeter. The GPS provides location latitude & longitude.

 

SBAS GPS reception
o High precision SBAS GPS meeting performance requirements of TSO-C199, transmitting a Source Integrity Level (SIL) and System Design Assurance (SDA) values of 1, ensuring ATC and airborne avionics can receive and trust the GPS position being transmitted.
• Barometric Altimeter for pressure altitude

[BurnieM]

I believe the SkyEcho is transmitting an SDA of 1 as opposed to an SDA of 3 for a panel mount transponder with ADS-B.

 

Supposedly ATC will use a mode C or S transponder or ADS-B (SDA 3) location for separation but ADS-B (SDA 1) for information only, whatever that means.

 

The only ADS-B (SDA 3) devices I have seen are also mode S transponders.

 

[Bosi72]

30 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

According to Uavionix the SE2 transmits barometric pressure from its in built barometric altimeter.

Same as smart watches and some phones which can tell the pressure only..

Without QNH, there are no means to decode the altitude.  

Therefore in-flight, I normally check what is my altitude shown from SkyEcho and compare it with the altimeter. That way I can tell whether the other traffic is at the same altitude as me. Always assume aircraft within +/-300ft is at the same level.  

 

In any case, the Adsb data providers can distinguish whether the data is coming from transponder or SkyEcho2.

 

[skippydiesel]

Correspondence, from SkyEcho , on inflight charging, charging regime & charger;

 

(From me) My aircraft is fitted with a “Guardian Avionics, "Dual USB-A, 2.7 amps / 5 VDC Output / For 9 - 48 VDC Systems” power supply. Is this suitable for the SE2,  as a unit off recharging source and/or as a unit on  continuous supply ?

 

(From SkyEcho)"Whilst that is a perfectly good charger which you can use it on any flight with SkyEcho, it is NOT sufficient to use ANY in aircraft charger as the sole means of charging. To do so will see the batteries deteriorate in 1-2 years to the point where they will need replacing. This is because it is time on charge that is important, as by design the SkyEcho is slow to charge taking 12 hours for a full charge.  You don’t fly long enough to charge it and you are using it at the same time, hence it is never fully charged. By all means charge in the aircraft but ensure that at least once a month you put it on a mains 3A 18W charger for at least 12 hours (overnight). For Australia use something like this https://amzn.asia/d/j70SB4u"

 

[Bosi72]

There are many designs where device stops working when the battery is fully depleted regardless of being connected to the wall chargers.  Some phones (if not all) when the battery is completely discharged won't start until the battery reaches some minimum (a couple of %) so it can start working.

 

I understand desire of all aircraft owners (including me) to save the costs and keep the $1000 device permanently in the aircraft doing the same job of $5000 transponder, however the reality is the SkyEcho2 is still a portable device. I am sure electronic gurus can improve device and bypass the battery, add better antenna, which can bring it closer to $5000 transponder, but it still won't be the full Mode-s.

 

Also, the portability will be lost, which is in my opinion of much greater value than keeping SE2 permanently attached to the aircraft. For example I also fly gliders and aircrafts without adsb-in-out. By carrying SE2 with me, adds an extra layer of safety to be able to "see" other aircrafts, and being seen too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Garfly]

3 hours ago, kgwilson said:

According to Uavionix the SE2 transmits barometric pressure from its in built barometric altimeter.
// ... • Barometric Altimeter for pressure altitude

Yeah, the SE2 works on Pressure Altitude so, in effect, it's always sending Flight Level, not AMSL.

ACAS systems all use PA since they're only really interested in own-ship's vertical relation to nearby targets; high or low, trending up or down.

 

 

 

Edited November 14 by Garfly

[Philster2001]

Ah, thanks for pointing out the light status I missed in the manual! Looks like it means my unit is functioning correctly now - flashing ADSB light, so at least users of other EFB’s than OzRunways (which I use) or other suitable Nav aids should be able to see me…thanks for all the helpful replies - much appreciated!

[kgwilson]

2 hours ago, Bosi72 said:

Same as smart watches and some phones which can tell the pressure only..

Without QNH, there are no means to decode the altitude.  

Therefore in-flight, I normally check what is my altitude shown from SkyEcho and compare it with the altimeter. That way I can tell whether the other traffic is at the same altitude as me. Always assume aircraft within +/-300ft is at the same level.  

 

In any case, the Adsb data providers can distinguish whether the data is coming from transponder or SkyEcho2.

 

As can ATC. The SE2 provides a different downlink code to that provided by Mode S extended squitter ADSB transmitters. ATC are able to filter all the SE2 data out if they want to. They don't do this at Coffs as I have proven a number of times when calling them & given my ADSB call sign (R + rego number). They may do this at Sydney or Melbourne as they don't need the clutter on the screen from recreational aviators who may be 20 to 30 NM away at low level.

[Garfly]

10 hours ago, Philster2001 said:

The reason that it originally came to my attention was that a commercial flight inbound for Albany ( flying doctor I think) said they couldn’t see me in the circuit, and that made me wonder whether it was because my Skyecho 2 wasn’t configured correctly….

 

Whereas ADSB-OUT is mandatory for all IFR a/c (so we should see all of them, with our SE2/EFBs) there's no requirement for them to be equipped with ADSB-IN and CDTI (Cockpit Display of Traffic Information).  So there's no guarantee they will see our SE2s.  (Many can and do though, it's hard to know; same with ATC - the situation is complicated and fluid.)

IFR ops often have TCAS but the SE2 (and other EC devices) are not visible to TCAS - which only sees and reacts to proper transponders.  But I think that state of affairs, too, is evolving as we march towards mandatory universal 1090 IN and OUT.

 

 

P.S: These are good reads (but also might need updating)

 

advisory-circular-91-23-ads-b-enhancing-situational-awareness 2.pdfVFR and visible _ Flight Safety Australia.pdf

 

 

 

Edited November 14 by Garfly

[coljones]

1 hour ago, Philster2001 said:

Ah, thanks for pointing out the light status I missed in the manual! Looks like it means my unit is functioning correctly now - flashing ADSB light, so at least users of other EFB’s than OzRunways (which I use) or other suitable Nav aids should be able to see me…thanks for all the helpful replies - much appreciated!

Users of other EFBs will only see you if they have an ADSB-In connected and operational.  Some EFBs may access and distribute position info but that info is not authoritative and may have holes, usually because the connections to the mobile network is dodgy.

[skippydiesel]

Odd thing! Thought I had my SE2 fully charged (BAT blue LED went out). Mounted it in a likly spot. Pressed the On button for the required 3 seconds - no LED's at all! and nothing showing on my iPad! ???? Previously had the green stripes, indicating ADS-B Out Broadcasting (receiving implied) top right hand corner.

 

Have it back on charge now. Showing

• BAT bright blue LED - Charging
• ADS-B Green Flashing LED - ADS-B transmitting/receiving
• GPS Red - no lock (in office)

No connection showing in iPad. OzRunways shows its installed.

 

Went through the SE2 installation process - got the green strips. Turned off SE2. Turned back on - no green stripes!!!  - either the connection is lost (again) OR  its saying I haven't reached stall speed ????

[kgwilson]

Check the battery charge status via software on your iPad. It should show 100% when the blue light goes out after charging assuming you are charging with a QC3 charger delivering 18 watts or thereabouts. The command is 192.168.4.1/stats in the browser of the iPad when it is connected to the SE2 via WiFi.

 

You will get 3 greens if 1. the battery is charged to more than 66%, 2. The SE2 is connected to the IPad, & 3 it is outside with a good view of the sky so the GPS is connected to satellites in 3D.

[kgwilson]

When the SE2 is charging  do not turn it on. The only light should be the blue Batt light.

[Garfly]

Another issue to keep in mind (which others have mentioned here) is that it's fairly easy to inadvertently turn the unit on as you stuff it into a flight bag or whatever.  It doesn't take much pressure to operate that barely recessed button.

I've taken to gaffer-taping an old credit card across the whole face of the SE2 to guard against that happening.

 

 

 

Edited November 14 by Garfly

[coljones]

3 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Odd thing! Thought I had my SE2 fully charged (BAT blue LED went out). Mounted it in a likly spot. Pressed the On button for the required 3 seconds - no LED's at all! and nothing showing on my iPad! ???? Previously had the green stripes, indicating ADS-B Out Broadcasting (receiving implied) top right hand corner.

 

Have it back on charge now. Showing

• BAT bright blue LED - Charging
• ADS-B Green Flashing LED - ADS-B transmitting/receiving
• GPS Red - no lock (in office)

No connection showing in iPad. OzRunways shows its installed.

 

Went through the SE2 installation process - got the green strips. Turned off SE2. Turned back on - no green stripes!!!  - either the connection is lost (again) OR  its saying I haven't reached stall speed ????

Try a shorter push on the on/off button. Mine turns on very quickly such that I put back in the case face down in case I accidentally turn it on as I push it into the case. A push of less than 2 sec. will activate mine.

 

Height and speed should not impact the on state, but may impact whether the transmit state is active.

[skippydiesel]

SE2 Fully charged, overnight.

 

It does not seem to automatically connect with my iPad - if I go into iPad Settings - Wi-Fi & select SE2, it connects straight away.

 

"The command is 192.168.4.1/stats " - Doesn't seem to get anything to do with SE2

 

What am I doing wrong??😈

[BurnieM]

Is your iPad already connected to your home internet ?

Think it will only auto connect to 1 network.

 

[skippydiesel]

22 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

Is your iPad already connected to your home internet ?

Think it will only auto connect to 1 network.

 

Ahhh!

[skippydiesel]

Advice from uAvionix/SkyEcho

 

"I see so many people ruin their SkyEchos by only charging in aircraft - despite the fact that we specifically warn against it on page 18 of the manual. If you charge your SkyEcho on mains monthly it will have a long life. Mine is one of the oldest at 5 years and still has 100% capacity as I ONLY charge it one in a month. You don’t really need to charge it in flight at all." 

[kgwilson]

I don't know about Ipads or iphones but in the WiFi settings you will see what is currently connected. If the SE2 is turned on it will show as a saved connection if the ipad is connected to your home WiFi. On my phone & tablet I just select the SE2 & it connects & disconnects the home WiFi. As soon as you are finished & turn it off the iPad should automatically revert to the home WiFi.

 

Uavionix is right. Battery degradation happens at high charge conditions so if the SE2 is constantly being charged it will not get a chance to discharge enough as electrons travel from the anode to the cathode via an electrical circuit to balance the charge. When the battery is being charged the electrons travel the other way but there is no circuit to balance it so the energy gets stored. Car batteries are constantly being charged while they also discharge & they only last a few years. The lithium battery in my old phone is still good & it was new in 2017. I never put it on charge unless the level was down to 20% or less. The battery has well outlived its software capabilities.

Edited November 15 by kgwilson