Zonsen Aero Engines - Rapture Aviation (Adelaide)

[Rapture]

Hi Everyone,

 

For the information of all recreational flyers in Australia, Rapture Aviation of Adelaide has been appointed as the sole distributor in Australia for the full range of Zonsen Aero engines.

 

For those that are not familiar with Zonsen Aero, they have a range of engines starting at a 12hp two stroke engine for powered parachutes and the like, through to their most powerful engine which is a 145hp fuel-injected turbocharged four stroke engine.  Their 80+hp range consists of the following models:

 

80hp CA300 (Equivalent to the Rotax 912UL)

100hp CA500 (Equivalent to the Rotax 912ULS)

110hp CA510 (between the 912ULS and the 914)

110hp CA510i - a fuel injected version of the CA510

115hp CA520T (Equivalent to the Rotax 914UL)

115hp CA520Ti - a fuel injected version of the CA520T

145hp CA550T - a carbureted turbocharged engine

145hp CA550Ti - a fuel injected version of the CA550T (Equivalent to the Rotax 915iS)

 

Rapture Aviation has a website at https://raptureaviation.com/ and a Facebook page at Facebook where more information can be found about the engines.

 

Rapture Aviation is also developing the Rapture Bug single seat high performance kit aircraft.  It is a modern design with its roots in the Lightning Bug kit aircraft that was produced in the early 1990's.  Using updated materials and fabrication techniques, the Rapture Bug is intended to offer the same or better performance than the original Lightning Bug but offer a lot more cockpit space for taller/larger pilots, a faster Vne, and much simplified construction to get it flying sooner.  At present, the new all-carbon fuselage is completed, and the new 2-piece all-carbon wings are under construction, with a target completion date for the wings of the end of the year.  We hope to have the all-new, all-carbon Bug flying mid next year fitted with the 145hp Zonsen CA550Ti.  This engine will offer a cruise power of around 130hp at 10,000' thanks to its turbocharging.  This power setting should offer a cruise TAS of around 220ktas.  Pulling the power back to a more economical power setting is projected to offer an economical cruise of 180ktas burning around 20 litres per hour.

 

For those not familiar with the Bug, here is a photo of an original Bug, as well as one of our new fuselage taken early in its construction.

 

 

[FlyBoy1960]

Good Luck !   Hope you get market acceptance.

 

[Rapture]

4 minutes ago, FlyBoy1960 said:

Good Luck !   Hope you get market acceptance.

 

Thanks FB.  It is going to be very interesting to see how the market in Australia reacts to these engines.  Only time will tell whether these engines can establish and maintain a solid reputation.  Product reliability, product support and affordability will be key to any acceptance by a very critical consumer base here.

I visited the factory in Chongqing, China a short while back. Zonsen has just opened their new aviation engine facility there.  It was very impressive.  The size of it alone was mind blowing.  The very professional entrance hallway, then their corporate showroom with the history of the company, their progress over the years, their current business partners and examples of all their engines was very well displayed. I then went out back to their assembly facility.  It was pristine, their technicians all professionally attired.  I could have eaten off the floor it was so clean.  Their warehouse was huge and automated with robots.  There were shelves all the way to the very high ceiling.  When parts were needed, the automated lift went down the appropriate corridor, stopped at the appropriate spot then took the container down and to the site that needed the part, then took the container back and stored it.  The dispatch area had a bunch of crated engines ready to be shipped.  The production line was all very neat and orderly.  There was a significant quality assurance section, doing QA inspections of parts and engines.  Out the back were several Dynos where their engines undergo extensive testing. The staff were all very friendly. I left with a positive feeling about their operation.  I am sincerely hoping that their products and product support will ensure that there is an alternative to Rotax who do produce a great little engine.

Our first engine will be delivered in December. We are looking forward to checking it out, getting it installed in an aircraft, and flying it.

Fun times ahead!

[Thruster88]

Will be interesting to see how RAAus handle these engines. MARUP? Buyers would need to do some checking. As the unicorn circuit would say "is that even legal".  

[facthunter]

They  are NOT a Certified engine.  I wonder how many parts interchange with the Rotax equivalent? How will Rotax handle the competition? Their motors and parts are Very expensive.. No Aero Motor is really ever going to be made in the numbers that Auto S are.  Nev

[BrendAn]

All I can tell you so far is that there are nearly 100 hours on the engine with no trouble whatsoever. Fuel consumption is right around 4.5 gph and it consumes barely any oil at all. It's as smooth as any Rotax I've ever flown behind and there's no indication that it'll be any less reliable. I'd fly behind one any day.

 

this was the reply when i asked this bloke about the zonshen , going very well so far.

[BrendAn]

 

[BurnieM]

Problem is it does not have a reputation yet.

 

I guess what I am looking for is "we have 200 of them flying with 500 hours or more and these are the failure numbers with these specific types of failures"

 

Sorry but 1 or 10 or 50 with 100 hours does not cut it.

 

[onetrack]

Just wait until the classic Chinese "quality fade" cuts in. That's when the corrupt operators in the company start short-circuiting the factory supply processes and specifications.

Add to that, manuals in Chinglish and a general lack of important spares when they're desperately needed. And don't even mention the resale value.

It'll be a cold day in Hell before I trust my life to a cut-price Chinese engine that is essentially an illegal copy of a European product.

[BrendAn]

7 hours ago, BurnieM said:

Problem is it does not have a reputation yet.

 

I guess what I am looking for is "we have 200 of them flying with 500 hours or more and these are the failure numbers with these specific types of failures"

 

Sorry but 1 or 10 or 50 with 100 hours does not cut it.

 

I agree,  that's just one example. It will take a few years to get a solid reputation.

[BrendAn]

6 hours ago, onetrack said:

Just wait until the classic Chinese "quality fade" cuts in. That's when the corrupt operators in the company start short-circuiting the factory supply processes and specifications.

Add to that, manuals in Chinglish and a general lack of important spares when they're desperately needed. And don't even mention the resale value.

It'll be a cold day in Hell before I trust my life to a cut-price Chinese engine that is essentially an illegal copy of a European product.

Why don't you have a look at the video on making these engines. This isn't  one of the old Chinese style setups. They look very well made with the latest technology. Show us an engine,A vehicle or just about anything that has no Chinese parts. I don't know of any.

[johnm]

intriguing stuff Rapture

 

this motor here says 2000 hrs TBO ............. does the manufacturer ALSO limit the engine to calender life (years)  ?

 

thanks

 

[Rapture]

8 hours ago, BurnieM said:

Problem is it does not have a reputation yet.

 

As a distributor trying to break a new product into a market where quality and reliability (read safety) are paramount, this is what we consider to be one of the critical elements of the “buy” decision for a potential customer.  Until a product has established a reputation, either good or bad, any buyer of a product is taking a gamble and there are not too many aircraft owners that will be prepared to take a gamble.  With a new unproven product, really the only way to sway buyers towards taking the risk in relation to reliability and product support is through offering a cost saving over the competition.  But what is the quantum of the cost saving needed to tempt the buyer away from the tried, tested and proven product?  Even in China, the cost base is at a defined level that will drive where the manufacturer needs to set their price point.

 

These engines are slowly filtering out into the aviation market.  Hours are starting to be built on them but it will likely still be a few years away before we have hard data on the reliability and product support elements of the engines.  We anticipate a few lean years of breaking into the Australian market but maybe, just maybe we might end up with a product line that reduces the cost of getting our aircraft flying when compared to a Rotax, but can offer a reliable and well supported alternative.  Let’s check back in 2 years time and see how things have panned out for Zonsen engines in Australia.  We are sincerely hoping that the presence of these engines is a positive one in Australia.

[Rapture]

4 minutes ago, johnm said:

 

 

this motor here says 2000 hrs TBO ............. does the manufacturer ALSO limit the engine to calender life (years)  ?

 

 

I will need to check on this.  Thanks to your query, I can suggest to Zonsen that they include that spec in their literature, if there is such a limitation.

[T510]

Best of luck Rapture.

 

Having dealt with Chinese manufactured products for a few years now it has become evident that they can produce some high quality products if you choose the right manufacturers.

 

As Brendan pointed out most things we buy now have Chinese components in them regardless of country of origin.

 

Can you share an indication of pricing?

Edited November 7 by T510

[BurnieM]

(Potential) customer perception;

 

There is a big quality/reliability question

 

Zonsen have way too many models

 

Introductory or discount pricing is unwise.

This works backwards with the number 1 perception problem

 

You need to establish one or maybe 2 models as reliable

I would pick the CA500 (912ULS) and maybe the CA550Ti (915).

 

You need to get 10 of each model flying asap

Maybe a factory loan deal with ongoing data logging

 - low or no cost to test group owners

 

Common parts for models you support need to be always available in Australia, 2 day delivery

 

All of this will cost you and the factory a significant amount

but I do not see you succeeding any other way.

 

[facthunter]

The Price has to reflect the Uncertainty, Rotax IS very expensive. Experience in the field matters. Also the quality of the installation obviously matters. THAT may vary to quite a large degree.  Nev

[BurnieM]

3 minutes ago, facthunter said:

The Price has to reflect the Uncertainty, Rotax IS very expensive. Experience in the field matters. Also the quality of the installation obviously matters. THAT may vary to quite a large degree.  Nev

 

A big advantage is the cost but it is a double edged sword.

 

You absolutely do not want to present an engine range with a quality/reliability question as cheap

 

[facthunter]

IT  will sell ONLY IF it is substantially cheaper than the one it copies.. That's the Chinese way. AS far as a squeaky clean workshop and neat looking young people even the Royal Enfield factory looks like that.     I'm NOT saying the product is junk but it's reptation has to be established.  Nev

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, Rapture said:

I will need to check on this.  Thanks to your query, I can suggest to Zonsen that they include that spec in their literature, if there is such a limitation.

It's a pity they don't build something like a half 912. There is nothing much available in the 60 HP range since Rotax ended the 582 engine. A lightweight 4 stroke would be excellent.

[facthunter]

 A V twin has better torsional momentum charactistics. There is a BEST angle of the V..   Nev

[Rapture]

All the above points and opinions have been noted.  They are no different from what we (Rapture Aviation) elocuted to the Zonsen team throughout our negotiations with them for the distributorship.  Zonsen are intimately aware of all these issues as well because they introduced their first aero engine product into Europe in 2019 and expanded their worldwide markets significantly in 2022.  They have seen first-hand how difficult it is to break into new markets when coming up against the likes of Rotax and their embedded solid reputation.  However, Zonsen is starting to make inroads as more engines get into aircraft and reliability and support are put to the test.  The number of engines is still low, as are the hours, but they are building all the time.

One element I discussed with Zonsen when I visited their factory was around warranty claims.  There have been very few and no significant claims that I was advised of.

What we intend to do is to absolutely cane a couple of engines (as suggested above, the likely 2 most desirable models) here in Australia to do our own in-the-field testing to support that which has been done at the factory and by other dealers. Of course, we will provide feedback on that to the manufacturer to assist them with product improvement which from my interaction with them is something that is important to them.

For those that reach out to Rapture, we may well need to seek the response to some questions from the manufacturer as we do not have all the answers.  This knowledge will come through experience with the product.  We will certainly do our best at our end from the product support perspective.

One question from an earlier post was about prices.  With our first engine currently being delivered, we need to be absolutely certain about importation costs before we will finalise the price point and publish prices.  Yes, the prices will be better than the equivalent Rotax but how much better will be determined shortly.

If you might be interested to consider a Zonsen engine, please visit our website (www.raptureaviation.com) and make an enquiry through our contact form.

[Rapture]

5 hours ago, johnm said:

 

 

this motor here says 2000 hrs TBO ............. does the manufacturer ALSO limit the engine to calendar life (years)?

 

 

I have confirmed that the TBO is 2,000 hours/15 calendar years, the same as Rotax.

 

Also, I've had a few enquiries already about it being a direct drop-in replacement for the equivalent Rotax and the answer from Zonsen is yes, it will drop onto the same mounting frame as the Rotax.

[Thruster88]

1 hour ago, Rapture said:

I have confirmed that the TBO is 2,000 hours/15 calendar years, the same as Rotax.

 

Also, I've had a few enquiries already about it being a direct drop-in replacement for the equivalent Rotax and the answer from Zonsen is yes, it will drop onto the same mounting frame as the Rotax.

What Zonsen says is irrelevant. It would be a good idea to check the legality for different classes of RAAus a aircraft, private, flying school, LSA, experimental etc with RAAus. It is a question potential customers will be asking you.

[facthunter]

That IS the difference. It cost Jabiru a fortune to certify some of it's stuff.. CASA would probably accept an FAA certification. or maybe BCAR . You couldn't be sure . There used to  be stated ways of getting an applied TBO.. If there was a spate of failures it would be reduced.  Some of these TBO's would be in the realm of an optimist wish. I'm not necessarily targeting this motor in my statement. The Rotax 9xx series need good quality control with fits and materials due to some of it's design  features.. Reverse engineering might just drop SOME critical aspect and it doesn't take much..  it's NOT easy to make a good aero motor. Porsche didn't succeed.  Nev