PA-22 Ditching NZ 19 November 2024

[kiwiaviator]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/emergency-services-responding-to-unfolding-aviation-incident-at-tasman-bay-near-nelson/BZ4PVY52UJAZPJGKYPAMNPVQAQ/

 

Great outcome. Weather was good and emergency response quick which contributed to the pilot surviving. I understand he was in the water for nearly an hour. 90% of ditchings are survivable. Its just what happens after that which determines the fate of those onboard.

[djpacro]

“He was forced to land in water ..”

[facthunter]

The tripacer wouldn't be my choice of plane to ditch in.  Nev

[rgmwa]

If it was my choice I’d prefer something with floats but unfortunately you’ve got to work with what you’ve got. He did pretty well in the circumstances. 

[Student Pilot]

  On 20/11/2024 at 5:29 AM, kiwiaviator said:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/emergency-services-responding-to-unfolding-aviation-incident-at-tasman-bay-near-nelson/BZ4PVY52UJAZPJGKYPAMNPVQAQ/

 

Great outcome. Weather was good and emergency response quick which contributed to the pilot surviving. I understand he was in the water for nearly an hour. 90% of ditchings are survivable. Its just what happens after that which determines the fate of those onboard.

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Where did you get those statistics? 90%?

[kiwiaviator]

  On 21/11/2024 at 1:05 AM, Student Pilot said:

Where did you get those statistics? 90%?

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Sorry. I should cite my sources 🙂 BTW 90% is an approximation for the initial survivability.

 

Schick VC, Boyd DD, Hippler C, Hinkelbein J. Survival After Ditching in Motorized Aircraft, 1989-2022. Aerosp Med Hum Perform. 2024 May 1;95(5):254-258. doi: 10.3357/AMHP.6332.2024. PMID: 38715275.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38715275/

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

There's a lot of ways of getting it wrong. Water is Hard at speed. Seaplanes don't cope with swells. Read the PG Taylors Catalina experience. Nev

[rankamateur]

  On 21/11/2024 at 1:13 AM, kiwiaviator said:

Sorry. I should cite my sources 🙂 BTW 90% is an approximation for the initial survivability.

 

Schick VC, Boyd DD, Hippler C, Hinkelbein J. Survival After Ditching in Motorized Aircraft, 1989-2022. Aerosp Med Hum Perform. 2024 May 1;95(5):254-258. doi: 10.3357/AMHP.6332.2024. PMID: 38715275.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38715275/

 

 

 

 

 

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Nicely played! Troll proof.

[RossK]

  On 21/11/2024 at 1:05 AM, Student Pilot said:

Where did you get those statistics? 90%?

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Also this

https://www.avweb.com/multimedia/votw/miami-accident-dont-be-fearful-of-ditching/

[facthunter]

The more you know about good techniques the better the Job will BE . IF the article is promoting something it can also be a bit biased.. .IF you have to ditch you don't have an option.. I know of a few heavies that didn't turn out so well and some seaplanes don't even make it into the air in slightly rough conditions. IF you manage to get airborne on a swell but sink back down  and hit the next swell firmly you are custard. Same when Landing. The second contact is the heavy one. You may even bury the nose and that's a very sudden stop.  Float planes landing wheel down, crash. Nev

Edited November 21, 2024 by facthunter
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[Thruster88]

A Thruster carefully prepared with some inflatable mattresses in the wings has been demonstrated to work in very hostile conditions. The only successful ditching in Bass Straight? 

[kiwiaviator]

  On 21/11/2024 at 5:54 AM, Thruster88 said:

A Thruster carefully prepared with some inflatable mattresses in the wings has been demonstrated to work in very hostile conditions. The only successful ditching in Bass Straight? 

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Details please Sounds as intriguing as the bloke who flew his sofa over LAX airspace a few haircuts ago..

[facthunter]

Aerial rubber ducky. It's a bit of fairly wild water. Did a search for a missing light aircraft in a "Borrowed" CASA F 27 with  9 of their observers on board. No sign of it.   we got down fairly LOW. It had a bit of a name as AUSTRALIA's Bermuda Triangle.  Nev

[Tasmag]

  On 21/11/2024 at 5:54 AM, Thruster88 said:

A Thruster carefully prepared with some inflatable mattresses in the wings has been demonstrated to work in very hostile conditions. The only successful ditching in Bass Straight? 

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You are giving that idiot way you much credit, the pool toys were in the wings but not inflated, they had to try and blow then up in the water. Nearly killed the passenger who had to be dragged through the windscreen. 

[Blueadventures]

  On 21/11/2024 at 5:54 AM, Thruster88 said:

A Thruster carefully prepared with some inflatable mattresses in the wings has been demonstrated to work in very hostile conditions. The only successful ditching in Bass Straight? 

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Years ago when I assisted taking the wings off a Savannah Bingo that hit treetops on take-off and crashed had heaps of plastic 2 litre milk bottles (empty of course) in the wings in case of a water ditching.

[RossK]

  On 21/11/2024 at 4:47 AM, facthunter said:

The more you know about good techniques the better the Job will BE . IF the article is promoting something it can also be a bit biased.. .IF you have to ditch you don't have an option.. I know of a few heavies that didn't turn out so well and some seaplanes don't even make it into the air in slightly rough conditions. IF you manage to get airborne on a swell but sink back down  and hit the next swell firmly you are custard. Same when Landing. The second contact is the heavy one. You may even bury the nose and that's a very sudden stop.  Float planes landing wheel down, crash. Nev

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The point of the avweb article was the pilot had 2 options, ditch or land on a suburban street. 

The TBM Avenger ditching at sun and fun - had the option of landing on the beach.

The Piper ditching in WA also had a beach landing option

Both chose ditching and walked away.

So when you ditch, it may not be the only option. But it may just be the better one.

[facthunter]

Yes I'm aware of those events, but they are the exception in the big scheme of things. I also qualified my comments with the preface "If you have to ditch.".   Nev

[rankamateur]

  On 21/11/2024 at 8:50 PM, Blueadventures said:

Years ago when I assisted taking the wings off a Savannah Bingo that hit treetops on take-off and crashed had heaps of plastic 2 litre milk bottles (empty of course) in the wings in case of a water ditching.

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The Savannah ditching at Conway Beach had the problem that the doors would not open until the cabin nearly filled with water to equalise the water pressure. The plastic bottles would have been much more use than deflated air matresses, the blowing time had nearly elapsed by the time they got out of the cabin.

[facthunter]

By the time the wing flotation becomes effective you are well immersed in the cabin.  nev

[Blueadventures]

  On 22/11/2024 at 4:10 AM, rankamateur said:

The Savannah ditching at Conway Beach had the problem that the doors would not open until the cabin nearly filled with water to equalise the water pressure. The plastic bottles would have been much more use than deflated air matresses, the blowing time had nearly elapsed by the time they got out of the cabin.

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Not that one; this one was many years ago at a property on Brandy creek road, Cannon Valley; Ross Millard was with us then and I was assisting him with the dismantle of the aircraft as it hit tall trees on take off and landed nose first on the neighbouring property.

[ClintonB]

  On 21/11/2024 at 5:54 AM, Thruster88 said:

A Thruster carefully prepared with some inflatable mattresses in the wings has been demonstrated to work in very hostile conditions. The only successful ditching in Bass Straight? 

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I remember Eugene and Chris in Tassie telling me about using the mattresses in the wings when I first tarted flying in thrusters 30 years ago.