Tying the aircraft down

[facthunter]

Dust Devil Land. Very  damaging potentially on the ground OR in the Air.  Nev

[Thruster88]

This happened on the apron at cowra on a low wind day a few years ago. Pilots left the aircraft for a short time. Empty weight about 430kg for the piper colt.

[Moneybox]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

i am confused, are you keeping it the shire airstrip. i thought you were flying out of your place.

 

at west sale airport they have concrete blocks you just drag out to where they are needed and tie the plane to them.

the wind howls through there and they work fine.

 

To start with I can't fly anywhere. I don't have a license and my plane is unregistered although since Tuesday last week it is at least unregistered in my name.

 

I'm trying to get a LAME here to inspect it and issue a Form-13 and Form-14. I asked RAAus how long after inspection until I can get it in the air, Nicola said "I'll do it right away" so then I'm ready to have a little more training and familiarisation to my aircraft and I'm going solo. As soon as I can I'll be clocking up hours and at this stage YCUE is the only option around here. My airstrip is going to take a bit of work but at least I've started. In official terms I'm doing rehabilitation on an old mining lease. At lease this 1.5Ha strip should be nicely leveled and free of old mining debris. It might even get a nice patch of artificial lawn at atleast one end to make it look like I'm growing grass 😀 

 

Today I brought home new sparkplugs (I have a tube of Wacker P12). They are sitting on the other end of the table waiting for Mrs M to etch their cylinder number and position, 1,1B,2,2B etc. The last time I ran it up it ran uneven when selecting Mag-1 and Mag-2. It could be carburettor balance but I think I have that pretty close using Mercury in the Slack Tube Manometer however I can recheck that too. My tubular insulation for the oil and coolant hoses turned up too so I'll fit that before fitting the cowl for perhaps the final time before registration. It's a 900km drive to the engineer so I'll call him and see if I can put it back on the trailer and get it down to him rather than wait for him to come up. It's no time to visit the desert goldfields.

Edited Monday at 09:45 AM by Moneybox

[Moneybox]

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

This happened on the apron at cowra on a low wind day a few years ago. Pilots left the aircraft for a short time. Empty weight about 430kg for the piper colt.

 

And mine is 100kg lighter than that.

[Red]

Personally If the location of the runway is decided,  Id build a stout hangar for the aircraft before anything else.

[Moneybox]

4 minutes ago, Red said:

Personally If the location of the runway is decided,  Id build a stout hangar for the aircraft before anything else.

 

Mmm... That wasn't in the budget either. Building anything up here is difficult and expensive. Materials are expensive and contractors are almost impossible to get. I can buy a kit but it still has to erected.

[BrendAn]

6 hours ago, Moneybox said:

 

Mmm... That wasn't in the budget either. Building anything up here is difficult and expensive. Materials are expensive and contractors are almost impossible to get. I can buy a kit but it still has to erected.

2 sea containers with a roof across the middle heaps of those setups around wa. I like them because you end up with storage each side and your hangar in the middle.

[skippydiesel]

8 hours ago, Moneybox said:

 

Mmm... That wasn't in the budget either. Building anything up here is difficult and expensive. Materials are expensive and contractors are almost impossible to get. I can buy a kit but it still has to erected.

You can purchase a 3 car garage or farm shed kit for about $8,000. There are discounts' from time to time down to close on 1/2 that figure.  If its a 3 car garage or shed with a suport in the wrong place, need to factor in some additional truss stiffening, to allow for a span wide enough for the aircarft. I guess transport is a big factor for you.😈

[Moneybox]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

You can purchase a 3 car garage or farm shed kit for about $8,000. There are discounts' from time to time down to close on 1/2 that figure.  If its a 3 car garage or shed with a suport in the wrong place, need to factor in some additional truss stiffening, to allow for a span wide enough for the aircarft. I guess transport is a big factor for you.😈

 

Here I think I can get away with anything but at YCUE the structure has to meet regulations because CASA have their bit to say about it. The one hanger at the airport is made up of two shipping containers heavily weighed down with concrete blocks, a solid steel roof spanning between and a chain between for aircraft anchorages. The ends are open which means it gives no protection from the wind or what it's carrying. I'll look into the farm shed but it'd need some modifications on the entry but it would work out cheaper than the containers considering freight and crane hire.

[skippydiesel]

11 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

 

Here I think I can get away with anything but at YCUE the structure has to meet regulations because CASA have their bit to say about it. The one hanger at the airport is made up of two shipping containers heavily weighed down with concrete blocks, a solid steel roof spanning between and a chain between for aircraft anchorages. The ends are open which means it gives no protection from the wind or what it's carrying. I'll look into the farm shed but it'd need some modifications on the entry but it would work out cheaper than the containers considering freight and crane hire.

CASA? - You sure? 

 

Who owns the airfield?😈

 

 

[Moneybox]

6 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

CASA? - You sure? 

 

Who owns the airfield?😈

I don't know who owns it. It's surely on crown land as there's very little freehold land in Western Australia outside the town boundaries. When I told the owner of the current hanger that I was considering putting something up out there he said that it has to be a CASA approved structure because they don't want anything loose floating about the airstrip in bad weather. The shire operate it.

[onetrack]

Steel is horribly expensive today, and shed kit suppliers and builders don't care what they charge, they have more work than they can poke a stick at. If the Cue Council is agreeable to the construction of a used shed, then picking up a dismantled shed or used shed frame can be an attractive option. The sheds built from lipped channel are flimsy, they will buckle up in a willy-willy. Go for portal-frame structural steel.

 

I'm currently building an 8M x 12M x 4M shed using modified portal frames made from structural steel, that came from a powerhouse at Koolyanobbing. Stratco want $25,000 for a shed that size, made from pressed metal. I'll do it for less than half that figure and that includes buying all new Z-purlins and girts and new Colorbond sheeting.

I found a young bloke in Darlington who does draughting, structural design and council planning, and he's knocking up the plans for the shed, doing the structural calculations, and drawing up all the paperwork for the council, so I can get a building permit.

You have to do all this yourself in W.A. today, there was a big change in 2012 as regards building construction permits and procedures. Before 2012, you submitted plans, and the council had to do all the assessments, now YOU have to provide all the engineering certificates, calculations, etc, so the council just has to check it all out on the submitted paperwork and then approve or reject the submission. It reduces the amount of work the council has to do, and throws it all on your shoulders.

 

There's a FB page called "Best Sheds of W.A.", but it's set up by a shed builder who specialises in pressed-metal sheds, and all the followers want the cheapest pressed-metal shed they can get. But the group is full of useful information and contacts.

 

Log into Facebook

WWW.FACEBOOK.COM

---

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

 

The wreckage photos shows what happens to pressed-metal sheds, when a decent storm comes through. It can be pretty devastating.

 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 12:34 AM by onetrack

[onetrack]

Cue Airport is a designated airport, not just an airstrip, so it comes under Federal laws relating to airport operation and ownership. I can't quickly find the ownership status of the land the Cue airport is on, but all the Shire information states that they own and run the Cue airport. There are two land titles involved in the Cue airport location, one inside the other, but it appears the larger outer one comprises the airport land boundaries,

The airport land title may be freehold, or it could be simply leasehold - you can apply through Landgate to acquire all the ownership details, but you have to pay a fee, I think it's around $25.00.

All the Council planning revolves around plans that indicate the airport is a Shire asset. The airport title is Lot number P092062 93.

 

You'll often find in the old Govt Gazettes, that land was allocated to the likes of "Recreation, Racecourse, Showground and Aerial Landing Ground", with an identifying Govt Reserve number. Many of those Reserves have since been changed to freehold titles or leasehold titles. Leasehold titles are more common in the Goldfields and Pastoral regions of W.A.

 

https://www.cue.wa.gov.au/documents/22/corporate-business-plan-2023-2027

 

Landgate Map Viewer Plus

MAP-VIEWER-PLUS.APP.LANDGATE.WA.GOV.AU

 

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, Moneybox said:

 

Here I think I can get away with anything but at YCUE the structure has to meet regulations because CASA have their bit to say about it. The one hanger at the airport is made up of two shipping containers heavily weighed down with concrete blocks, a solid steel roof spanning between and a chain between for aircraft anchorages. The ends are open which means it gives no protection from the wind or what it's carrying. I'll look into the farm shed but it'd need some modifications on the entry but it would work out cheaper than the containers considering freight and crane hire.

you can close in the rear of the sea container shed. surely 2 containers from geraldton would not be too expensive freightwise.

but each to his own, i am sure you will come up with a solution that suits you.

[Moneybox]

47 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Steel is horribly expensive today, and shed kit suppliers and builders don't care what they charge, they have more work than they can poke a stick at. If the Cue Council is agreeable to the construction of a used shed, then picking up a dismantled shed or used shed frame can be an attractive option. The sheds built from lipped channel are flimsy, they will buckle up in a willy-willy. Go for portal-frame structural steel.

 

I'm currently building an 8M x 12M x 4M shed using modified portal frames made from structural steel, that came from a powerhouse at Koolyanobbing. Stratco want $25,000 for a shed that size, made from pressed metal. I'll do it for less than half that figure and that includes buying all new Z-purlins and girts and new Colorbond sheeting.

I found a young bloke in Darlington who does draughting, structural design and council planning, and he's knocking up the plans for the shed, doing the structural calculations, and drawing up all the paperwork for the council, so I can get a building permit.

You have to do all this yourself in W.A. today, there was a big change in 2012 as regards building construction permits and procedures. Before 2012, you submitted plans, and the council had to do all the assessments, now YOU have to provide all the engineering certificates, calculations, etc, so the council just has to check it all out on the submitted paperwork and then approve or reject the submission. It reduces the amount of work the council has to do, and throws it all on your shoulders.

 

There's a FB page called "Best Sheds of W.A.", but it's set up by a shed builder who specialises in pressed-metal sheds, and all the followers want the cheapest pressed-metal shed they can get. But the group is full of useful information and contacts.

 

Log into Facebook

WWW.FACEBOOK.COM

---

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

 

The wreckage photos shows what happens to pressed-metal sheds, when a decent storm comes through. It can be pretty devastating.

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like you made the trusses. I can do all that work but there are only so many jobs I can get through and I seem to work at half the pace I did twenty years ago. I have a couple of forklifts too but they are on solid tyres and not suitable for off-road. I could get away with a jib on the loader for this sort of thing. We'll see, after I do some groundwork.

[Moneybox]

5 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

you can close in the rear of the sea container shed. surely 2 containers from geraldton would not be too expensive freightwise.

but each to his own, i am sure you will come up with a solution that suits you.

Yes the sea containers are the most sturdy but we don't buy much from Geraldton because there's no regular freight service. Most things come from Perth.

[onetrack]

I rebuilt the trusses to 8M span with new SHS, because the originals were only 4.8M span, and they were open at the ends and iron ore dust had got into the SHS and caused corrosion. I was originally just going to extend the trusses, it was easier and quicker to just buy some new SHS and cut the brackets off the old trusses and weld them to the new SHS. Yes, you're right, I'm slowing down, too, I'm 75, but you have to do something to keep yourself occupied!

 

I'm fortunate in that I picked up an old Fowler tractor crane for $1500, it's just the shot for lifting stuff around. Not pretty, and it has its limits, but it's still very handy.

 

Edited yesterday at 01:29 AM by onetrack

[Moneybox]

2 hours ago, onetrack said:

Steel is horribly expensive today, and shed kit suppliers and builders don't care what they charge, they have more work than they can poke a stick at. If the Cue Council is agreeable to the construction of a used shed, then picking up a dismantled shed or used shed frame can be an attractive option. The sheds built from lipped channel are flimsy, they will buckle up in a willy-willy. Go for portal-frame structural steel.

 

I'm currently building an 8M x 12M x 4M shed using modified portal frames made from structural steel, that came from a powerhouse at Koolyanobbing. Stratco want $25,000 for a shed that size, made from pressed metal. I'll do it for less than half that figure and that includes buying all new Z-purlins and girts and new Colorbond sheeting.

I found a young bloke in Darlington who does draughting, structural design and council planning, and he's knocking up the plans for the shed, doing the structural calculations, and drawing up all the paperwork for the council, so I can get a building permit.

You have to do all this yourself in W.A. today, there was a big change in 2012 as regards building construction permits and procedures. Before 2012, you submitted plans, and the council had to do all the assessments, now YOU have to provide all the engineering certificates, calculations, etc, so the council just has to check it all out on the submitted paperwork and then approve or reject the submission. It reduces the amount of work the council has to do, and throws it all on your shoulders.

 

There's a FB page called "Best Sheds of W.A.", but it's set up by a shed builder who specialises in pressed-metal sheds, and all the followers want the cheapest pressed-metal shed they can get. But the group is full of useful information and contacts.

 

Log into Facebook

WWW.FACEBOOK.COM

---

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

 

The wreckage photos shows what happens to pressed-metal sheds, when a decent storm comes through. It can be pretty devastating.

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing tubular means they are relying on the sheets of iron to give it torsional strength. Perhaps the one with the caravan had lots of roof fastenings but not enough in the walls or very light sheeting. The box type structure has to be rigid enough and the frame is just keeping the box in shape. 

[rgmwa]

2 hours ago, BrendAn said:

you can close in the rear of the sea container shed. surely 2 containers from geraldton would not be too expensive freightwise.

but each to his own, i am sure you will come up with a solution that suits you.

Unless the container setup has been designed to have one end enclosed, you might find it will not stand up to strong winds. The air gets trapped in one direction and the positive pressure significantly increases the total uplift on the roof. When the wind blows in the opposite or sideways directions, the internal pressure drops increasing the negative pressure wanting to pull it down, although that's usually less of a problem than the uplift.

 

Portal rafters can buckle under wind uplift whether they are made of trusses, I-beams or pressed metal lipped sections unless the bottom flanges or chords are braced back to the purlins at certain locations. Same with the columns. These sheds should also have wall and roof bracing and not rely on the sheeting to do the work.

 

While Increasing the truss span from 4.8m to 8m doesn't seem like a lot, it can increase the stresses in the trusses and columns by a factor of about 2.5 to 3 for the same loading, all things being equal. On the other hand most structures rarely if ever experience their full design loads.  I have a hangar made from second hand materials that has stood up quite happily for more than 20 years that I probably couldn't prove would stand up under the wind loads loads it should be designed for. So far, so good.

 

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, rgmwa said:

Unless the container setup has been designed to have one end enclosed, you might find it will not stand up to strong winds. The air gets trapped in one direction and the positive pressure significantly increases the total uplift on the roof. When the wind blows in the opposite or sideways directions, the internal pressure drops increasing the negative pressure wanting to pull it down, although that's usually less of a problem than the uplift.

 

Portal rafters can buckle under wind uplift whether they are made of trusses, I-beams or pressed metal lipped sections unless the bottom flanges or chords are braced back to the purlins at certain locations. Same with the columns. These sheds should also have wall and roof bracing and not rely on the sheeting to do the work.

 

While Increasing the truss span from 4.8m to 8m doesn't seem like a lot, it can increase the stresses in the trusses and columns by a factor of about 2.5 to 3 for the same loading, all things being equal. On the other hand most structures rarely if ever experience their full design loads.  I have a hangar made from second hand materials that has stood up quite happily for more than 20 years that I probably couldn't prove would stand up under the wind loads loads it should be designed for. So far, so good.

 

all the container workshops I have worked out of  over the years have stood up to the weather with no problems. Heaps of contractors use them and quite often fill in one end to stop the wind. Do you know of them failing.

Edited yesterday at 05:28 AM by BrendAn

[rgmwa]

I'm not aware of any failing. Our firm has been involved in a few and it's definitely something we consider and make sure there's enough weight in them, or some other form of anchorage to make sure the containers stay where they are, even if the fabric potentially gives way first. As I suggested before, lots of poorly built or under-strength structures never fail because they never experience their full design loads.  The basic design wind speed for a normal building in Cue, for example, is 162 km/hr. Various factors based on the building's shape, the surrounding terrain, the part of the building being designed etc are then applied to convert that wind speed to a design wind pressure.

In a cyclonic area such as Karratha, the pressure of the wind on a steel framed building can be roughly equivalent to the weight (acting upwards on the roof) of about 200mm of concrete and the same on the walls trying pushing the building over. 

 

[BrendAn]

the cheapest hangar for mb might be to dig a hole with a ramp entrance and put a roof over it.  might need a pump and float switch when it rains.  

i have seen a similar concept where the roof was a swimming pool that moved aside for vertical takeoffs.

[Red]

Been watching Thunderbirds Brenda?

[onetrack]

He's not a Brenda - he's Brendan, the huge snarly tattooed truckie, and that could create trouble for you, calling him a girl.

[BrendAn]

3 minutes ago, Red said:

Been watching Thunderbirds Brenda?

you got me😁.   my name is brendan at the moment anyway