Radio ID

[rokket2001]

Watching vids, I see that aircraft have to spend so much precious time identifying themselves with every transmission. Of course it's critical to ID. I've seen some vids with pilots not ID-ing or communicating improperly and it's not good.

 

But wouldn't it be so much more efficient if every transmission transmitted the call sign automatically?

 

Not audio, but a text call sign and the type of aircraft. ATC would have another level of info, knowing that whoever is transmitting is  "XXXX-B737" and not a "Cessna." It seems like it would cut down confusion and save time.

 

Amateur/enthusiast here (professional at being an enthusiast!), so I could be waaay off. I know they have squawk codes and Friend Or Foe, but those are obviously different from what I can see.

 

Anyone have any info or reasons why this won't work? (is stupid...) Thanks!

[spacesailor]

How would you ' visualise '  xxxx-B73 when it's heading your way rather fast .

Cessna or Piper would normally be , high wing or low wing, simple to visualise. 

spacesailor

 

[rokket2001]

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

 

Instead of saying on the radio, "[TARGET TOWER] Acme Air 107, on final with information Juliet", The plane would key the mic and the callsign would appear as text on ATC screens: [TEXT]: ACME 107-B737. The pilot would then say the "meat" of his message: "on final with information Juliet".

 

By putting the aircraft type in the info, you could distinguish between aircraft (somewhat - trouble if 5 737s are all landing/taking off at once...) so you have more info and know what plane made the transmission.

[skippydiesel]

Where in your Cessna /Piper/Homebuilt?etc would this "text" appear?😈

[rokket2001]

The text would only appear on ATC screens. Say it's a commercial B737 for argument. The radio would be set by the factory to transmit "-B737", you just have to type in airline/flight before takeoff. Then every time you transmit, your transmission sends out text "ACME-B737" that appears on ATC screens. They know who is talking and you don't have to ID yourself. You still could  for the first transmission, but every communication after would be faster. And (except for sc-fi hackers) would be more accurate. ATC would know that XXX airline, a B737 (or whatever), is talking.

[FlyBoy1960]

the problem is that VHF is an analog transmission format and to identify aircraft details would require a digital transmission format.

 

You would not be able to transmit or receive the information on a VHF radio

[BurnieM]

It is all doable.

 

Problem is you have an entrenched base of millions of current/old model aviation radios. Unless you make it compulsory take up will take decades.

Making it compulsory will likely lead to a very loud negatve responsive which will kill it in less than 12 months.

 

I always wonder why existing VHF aviation radios cost more than $500 and still use AM.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Once you have established contact with ATC and have a squawk code ATC have your details on their radar screen from your transponder. Also an ADSB transmitter transmits your rego number among other details so they have it from this as well. Aviation radio is VHF and there is no capability to transmit station ID information.

[440032]

rokket2201, I suspect you might be a young person just starting to be interested in aviation and how it all works? If so, good. Without new ideas and questions coming along, nothing ever advances.

Some ideas will be great, but take time to develop, and some ideas... well... not so much. In aviation, nothing can change fast, and it would have to change worldwide. And things DO change for the better over time as new technology comes along.

ATC are not the sole users of radio calls made by pilots - pilot to pilot communications may be 50%, and to-from ATC the other 50%.

And that's all I have to throw into this one.

 

Oh, the use of VHF..... I think we're stuck with it. If something else was better, it's impossible to flick the switch and everybody starts using the new thing at midnight on 1 January 2030.

Think of it as deciding to all start driving on the other side of the road - from midnight. It wouldn't work. You'd have to stage it - say cars with number plates ending in an even number switch over at midnight, then next week, cars with odd number plates switch over. What could possibly go wrong!

 

 

[spacesailor]

Single side-band suppressed carrier ! .

spacesailor

[Thruster88]

The other issue is many aircraft don't use their registration as the call sign. All RPT for example.

[Deano747]

2 hours ago, 440032 said:

 

Think of it as deciding to all start driving on the other side of the road - from midnight. It wouldn't work. 

 

 

Tangent .... Sweden did exactly that back in the late 60's ...... overnight. 😀

 

Edited Wednesday at 01:27 AM by Deano747

[FlyBoy1960]

I also think it is a great question regardless of the age that somebody asked it.   unfortunately we are stuck with VHF for now. At best air to air 150 miles or less. UHF on the other hand can do 2 or 3 times this distance and still be crystal clear but then it doesn't fade away it just disappears instantly as you go further.

 

 Why do  VHF radios cost so much ?   it's because they are using 1950s technology and a lot of the parts are impossible to find and must now be specially made to keep production going of the radios. Add to this the cost of certification and probably the biggest cost is they are getting made in the dozens and not the tens of thousands like consumer transceivers.

 

If someone came up with an order for 200,000 air band VHF radios I am sure the price would come down but I was looking at the serial numbers for Becker a little while ago and they only seem to be making about 1000 per year at the absolute most. I know XCOM did 6,000 in 8 years  so it gives you an idea of the low numbers

[rokket2001]

Thanks fort all the great info, everyone. Interesting about VHF. And sadly for me, I'm old...

 

Yes, I assumed digital is the future for everything, so digital radio. I realise it would be a long time before a changeover, but well begun is half done and all that. It's like many new things in life, they will take literalll forever if we don't start now.

 

Well, 100 years from now maybe. Of course by then we'll either have flying pods controlled by AI or we'll be back to caveman times...

[Kiwi]

8 hours ago, Deano747 said:

Tangent .... Sweden did exactly that back in the late 60's ...... overnight. 😀

 

American Samoa did the same thing in 2009.

 

[facthunter]

A change such as that HAS to be effective and enforced at a Defined time. Why not have a 24 hour clock? (Thought  I'd throw that one in again.  That's one that could be transitioned over  a period. Nev

Edited Wednesday at 11:09 PM by facthunter

[spacesailor]

This government missed a great chance to switch to the French/ American side . While , we were all locked down by covic

spacesailor

Edited Thursday at 02:02 AM by spacesailor

[facthunter]

PLEASE explain.  Nev

[spacesailor]

The public were not driving. During  the ' covic ' lockdown travel restrictions. 

A great opportunity, missed to have the same model car that the world's majority drive .

Left hand drive cars .

spacesailor

 

[onetrack]

God forbid that we ever change over to driving on the right, half the nation can't drive properly on the left now! Probably about a quarter of the current crop of drivers seem to fail to understand that basic road rule of "keeping to the left"!!

They park on the wrong side of the road, facing the wrong way (a chargeable offence in every jurisdiction in Australia), they fail to understand the dangers in parking in this manner - they corner wide, and come across to your side of the road at T-junctions and curves, instead of keeping to their side! - they drive down the middle of most urban roads, as if they own the whole road - and vast numbers fail to indicate, even when it's mandatory!

 

We'd be better off re-educating a large number of current drivers to get them to understand basic road rules, instead of swapping to driving on the opposite side of the road! Besides, the cost to the nation of a swap to driving on the right is unaffordable, and the gains are insignificant in comparison to the cost.

[Red]

On 18/12/2024 at 5:47 AM, rokket2001 said:

 

Well, 100 years from now maybe. Of course by then we'll either have flying pods controlled by AI or we'll be back to caveman times...

I'm betting on a compact granite residence with a nice chiseled balcony overlooking the ruins

[spacesailor]

My point! .

Those new uneducated  drivers , you refer to have learned on the other tack.  IE  : ,left hand drive cars .

there is more of them than our little island population .

and we are filling up with them .

spacesailor

, 

[pmccarthy]

10 hours ago, Red said:

I'm betting on a compact granite residence with a nice chiseled balcony overlooking the ruins

Beware of radon gas levels from that granite.

[facthunter]

You have to abide by the rules wherever you are. The majority of cars made are LHD.. The PIC sits in the lefthand seat of an aeroplane. Get with it.   Nev

[Blueadventures]

20 hours ago, spacesailor said:

This government missed a great chance to switch to the French/ American side . While , we were all locked down by covic

spacesailor

In Queensland you could go fishing to get food; only family household members allowed on the same boat, heaps went fishing so heaps of driving done.