Country Airstrip Guide. What you think?

[NT5224]

Hi Team 

 

I have a question. Every year I get repeat billed by the ‘Country Airstrip Guide’ people for their  latest update. It isn’t cheap, (probably upwards of $50) and they don’t make it easy to unsubscribe. 
 

But as far as I can tell there are very few updates and differences year to year. So you keep paying  for the same document on repeat.

 

Furthermore, the ‘pilots touring guide’ that comes packaged in Ozrunways seems to contain virtually identical information and Ozrunways  itself provides the airstrip  diagrams.

 

Can anybody explain  to me what is the advantage of a subscription to the Country Airstrip guide? How does it compare with the pilot touring guide, and is it worth having both? Maybe there’s something I’m not getting…

 

Cheers 

 

Alan 

 

 

Edited Monday at 07:13 AM by NT5224

[facthunter]

My wife used things like Lonely planet to get detailed information when we used to go  to  Places off the beaten track..  Asking  HERE might be effective to a certain degree. That reminds Me where is Franco Arri?  Anyone know?  Nev

[skippydiesel]

One useful detail that is missing, from the OzRunways pilot touring guide, is the nearest available 98 RON ULP - other sites like Fuel Guide can be excessed for this , it would be nice if included in OzRunways.😈 .

[Garfly]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

My wife used things like Lonely planet to get detailed information when we used to go  to  Places off the beaten track..  Asking  HERE might be effective to a certain degree. That reminds Me where is Franco Arri?  Anyone know?  Nev

 

The last time I saw Franco was last May at Deeral.

 

[onetrack]

Well, a bloke wished Franco Happy Birthday on Farcebook, on 31st Dec last - and Frank replied, so he's still around!

 

Drifter Aircraft Appreciation Society | Happy birthday to this...

WWW.FACEBOOK.COM

---

Happy birthday to this amazing Drifter pilot Franco Arri

 

[spacesailor]

We miss his video posts. 

spacesailor

[NT5224]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

One useful detail that is missing, from the OzRunways pilot touring guide, is the nearest available 98 RON ULP - other sites like Fuel Guide can be excessed for this , it would be nice if included in OzRunways.😈 .

Good point Skippy.
 

But as I don’t  use 98 unleaded in my Lycoming that’s of little interest to me…Will  be  more significant to those flying with Rotax or Jabiru motors…

 

Alan 

Edited Monday at 11:30 AM by NT5224

[Bernie]

10 hours ago, facthunter said:

My wife used things like Lonely planet to get detailed information when we used to go  to  Places off the beaten track..  Asking  HERE might be effective to a certain degree. That reminds Me where is Franco Arri?  Anyone know?  Nev

Franco is still alive and well Nev, I chat with him on FB, he's still flying.

[kgwilson]

There are many Lycoming engines that will run happily on Automotive Fuel including the O360 & IO360. The same applies to Continental engines. This means around 70% of the US fleet with these engines could be running on unleaded automotive fuel. The real problem is getting approvals. US Mogas is approved for many engines & while it is essentially the same as Automotive gasoline (petrol) the approvals don't apply to those.

 

Avgas is Paraffin based whereas 98 petrol is aromatic hydrocarbon based. Avgas supposedly has better vapour lock resistance at high altitude (above 10,000 feet) though not an issue in high wing aircraft with gravity feed or where fuel is pushed from a tank not pulled. A bloke I know with an O200 Continental changed to 98 & the engine runs better with virtually no deposits or plug fouling.

[skippydiesel]

10 hours ago, NT5224 said:

Good point Skippy.
 

But as I don’t  use 98 unleaded in my Lycoming that’s of little interest to me…Will  be  more significant to those flying with Rotax or Jabiru motors…

 

Alan 

Thanks  Alan,

 

To paraphrase; As I don't use AvGas in my Rotax it's of significant interest to me.

 

I would suggest that the number of ULP users is significant (& rising) and it's only the conservatism of the aviation community as a whole, that results in this sort of discrimination.

[Neil_S]

15 hours ago, NT5224 said:

Hi Team 

 

I have a question. Every year I get repeat billed by the ‘Country Airstrip Guide’ people for their  latest update. It isn’t cheap, (probably upwards of $50) and they don’t make it easy to unsubscribe. 
 

But as far as I can tell there are very few updates and differences year to year. So you keep paying  for the same document on repeat.

 

Furthermore, the ‘pilots touring guide’ that comes packaged in Ozrunways seems to contain virtually identical information and Ozrunways  itself provides the airstrip  diagrams.

 

Can anybody explain  to me what is the advantage of a subscription to the Country Airstrip guide? How does it compare with the pilot touring guide, and is it worth having both? Maybe there’s something I’m not getting…

 

Cheers 

 

Alan 

 

 

 

Hi Alan,

 

I agree there do not seem to be many changes year on year - personally, as I live in Melbourne and mostly fly within Victoria, I just buy the hard copy book for Victoria and Tasmania every few years. Not sure if that's the most cost effective, but I have done that the last few years.

BTW - if you log into their website (www.flightace.com) it lists all the airfields in the books by state, so you can check if a certain field is in there. 

 

Cheers,

Neil

 

Edited Monday at 10:43 PM by Neil_S

[Moneybox]

What is classed as a Country Airstrip anyway?

 

I thought I'd see if Cue is there No, Mount Magnet No, Meekatharra No, however some of the smaller station strips are listed.

[NT5224]

6 hours ago, kgwilson said:

There are many Lycoming engines that will run happily on Automotive Fuel including the O360 & IO360. The same applies to Continental engines. This means around 70% of the US fleet with these engines could be running on unleaded automotive fuel. The real problem is getting approvals. US Mogas is approved for many engines & while it is essentially the same as Automotive gasoline (petrol) the approvals don't apply to those.

 

Avgas is Paraffin based whereas 98 petrol is aromatic hydrocarbon based. Avgas supposedly has better vapour lock resistance at high altitude (above 10,000 feet) though not an issue in high wing aircraft with gravity feed or where fuel is pushed from a tank not pulled. A bloke I know with an O200 Continental changed to 98 & the engine runs better with virtually no deposits or plug fouling.

Yes this is all true.

 

My  0320 would run fine on Mogas and I believe may be certified to do so. However, what Lycoming  does not approve  is switching  intermittently between fuel types. I might do so in an emergency ( if no other fuel was available) but basically stick with Avgas.

 

Incidentally, just from personal experience I find Avgas runs smoother and cleaner on various power tools around my property. The small two strokes prefer the lead lubrication and don’t get gummed up with all the aromatics and stabilisers they put in unleaded 98. 
 

Scaling up this observation to an aircraft engine, I assume it runs better on specialist aviation fuels. Have not personally experienced plug fouling with Avgas.

 

Cheers 

 

Alan 

[facthunter]

There's a lot LESS lead in it (100LL) than in the early days where 130/145 was used in DC 3's and bigger. A bromine additive scours the Lead and leaves a tell tale white in the exhaust pipes. A lot of RACE Cars used it. The most sludge&Gum filled engines I ever saw were Jacobs Radials in a Grumman Ag  Cat running on Mogas.. I've run chainsaws and two stroke Scotts on 100LL and they run very clean with no carbon build up and start easier. I think the Later 89 MOGAS is more for Injection motors. With Carb Motors you need more choke/priming  when starting.  Nev

[Headwind]

Personally I just add it onto my AvPlan subscription. There is the option of the AOPA guide as well; is AOPA still in existence here in Australia?

[skippydiesel]

Terrible thread drift but cant let the, possibly faith based utterances from above, go unanswered/challenged;

 

(My comment below are not to suggest for a moment, that I would not defend the right of any person to use whatever fuel they wish) 

 

I have owned/operated and serviced a wide range of petrol (including 2/) powered small engines fo some 50 plus years.

 

I use  exclusively 91 RON in the last 30 years and on previous occasion 91 or 95 RON. 

 

I have never, repeat never, had a plug fouling, starting, carbon build up or any other fuel related problem, while using this grade of fuel.

 

Those that promote the use of higher RON fuels (including AvGas, WTF!!!!!) in such engines are, without so much as a sceric of credibility.

 

I assume promoters of using higher RON fuels, than the small engine needs to run efficiently, or the manufacturers specifies, have some sort of obscure vested interest in spreading such drivel.

 

I have no doubt that the engines will run on 98 RON/ AvGas, however the ONLY benefit will be in your perception that they somehow run better(?) and your wallet will be unnecessarily drained for this gratification.😈

 

 

[facthunter]

IF the engine is inclined to detonate at all you try to make sure that doesn't occur as the engine will get hotter. lose power and destroy Itself. WHY do YOU have to be SO super condemnatory of anyone who thinks differently to YOU?  AIR -Cooled engines at higher loads are particularly sensitive to overheating. CAUTION is justified in this matter.  A lot of what you advise is NOT safe.  Nev

[kgwilson]

I have had plug fouling using Avgas in old Lycomings from the 60s & 70s and have seen lead deposits on pistons & heads. Jabiru engines seem to fare poorly on Avgas & reports from a number of owners who have switched confirmed that the engines run better on Automotive 95 or 98. Mogas is not sold in Australia. 100LL Avgas is certainly much better than the old high octane leaded Avgas. Never the less it still contains Tetraethyl lead (TEL) which is highly toxic & the sooner it is replaced with a lead free alternative the better. In the US GAMI's G100UL unleaded Avgas has been approved by the FAA. It improves performance, reduces routine maintenance, extends spark plug life and extends time between oil changes.

 

My Jab 3300 has only ever run on Avgas when that was all I could get on a long trip. I didn't notice any performance difference. My engine remains clean with absolutely no deposits when checking via a borescope and the oil stays quite clean between changes.

 

There are disadvantages with Automotive petrol though. It stinks due to the aromatic hydrocarbons. It has a much lower shelf life when stored in aircraft fuel tanks but a bit of fresh on top resolves any issues caused by stale fuel, and it is more prone to vapour lock at high altitude.

[aro]

10 hours ago, kgwilson said:

Mogas is not sold in Australia.

Is there a product sold as Mogas anywhere? I've always heard it used in relation to aviation, i.e. it basically means not-avgas.

 

In the USA they have gas/gasoline for cars and avgas for aircraft by I'm not aware of actual "Mogas".

[RossK]

Mogas 98 at Tyabb

[skippydiesel]

Mogas, Motor Gas, Auto Gas, Gas, Unleaded, Lead free Petrol, Petrol, ULP, E10 (10% ethanol blend with petroleum) are all country terminological variations on petroleum fuel, for ground based engines. 

 

AvGas, Aviation Gasoline is formulated specifically for aircraft use. Is usually very much more expensive than ULP. Yes, ground based engines will run on it. The only ground based engines that will see a significant benefit (increased performance), in using this fuel, are those with higher than standard compression ratios. 

 

With ULP, there may be some country formulation differences (particularly summer/winter blends in very cold climates) however the same engine will run just fine, no matter which counties fuel is being used ie the fuel meets the engine manufactures specifications.

 

Most western counties (inc. Australia) will have petrol with diffrent Octane (anti knock) ratings to meet the needs of engines with higher compression than others. Australia expresses the diffrent in Octane ratings as RON (Research Octane Number)  91 - 95 - 98.

 

Petrol blended with ethanol (E) to a certain maximum percentage (%) is available in Australia, USA, most of Europe. Rotax engines are approved to use up to 10% E (E10) with the caveat that the aircraft manufacture approves its use. Reason E attacks some "rubber"  components that may be used in the fuel supply system. E10 is cheaper to purchase than non E blended fuel but contains less energy, so the engine will use more to deliver the same performance - this may negate the cost advantage. To my knowledge Rotax is the only  aircraft engine manufacturer to approve the use of E10.

 

I have no experince and only anecdotal knowledge of using ULP in LyCons, Jab engines. My local flying school is exclusively Jab aircraft, they all run on ULP 98 RON, have done for very many years, apparently without any negative effects. My Rotax powered aircraft has a preference for 98 RON - will run on 95 RON and if needs be AvGas .

 

While I accept that AvGas is produced to tighter standards than ULP, in Australia ULP is of sufficiently high standard (when vendor selected with some care) to meet the needs of Rotax and apparently Jabiru aircraft engines, where the manufacturer has specified or accepted its use.

 

The use of AvGas in engines designed to use ULP, does not confer any significant advantage ( I am told this may be diffrent for operating above 10,000ft) and may result in a higher maintenance cost (Lead fouling in Rotax engines), will cost more to purchase and is particularly detrimental to the environment and persons inhaling the exhaust fumes.

[onetrack]

"Mogas" is a slang term description devised by Americans to describe their petrol fuels, which are correctly termed "Motor Gasoline" in the U.S. The slang word has seeped into some areas of Australian culture.

 

The word "Mogas" as shown in RossK's photo is the trade name of an Australian fuel distributor, who operates in several Australian States.

 

Mogas Regional :: Suppliers of Bulk Diesel, Unleaded, Premium Fuels and Lubrications

MOGASREGIONAL.COM.AU

---

Total fuel supply chain provider. Supply, transport and storage for petroleum products, aviation fuel and lubricants, plus fuel farm and ...

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by onetrack

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, aro said:

Is there a product sold as Mogas anywhere? I've always heard it used in relation to aviation, i.e. it basically means not-avgas.

 

In the USA they have gas/gasoline for cars and avgas for aircraft by I'm not aware of actual "Mogas".

Mogas is sold in the USA.      

It doesn't mean anyting  not-avgas, it's a specific fuel.

 

Mogas is not sold in Australia.

Our refining for cars, trucks, tractors, stationary engines if different to the USA.

 

 

[Moneybox]

8 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Mogas is sold in the USA.      

It doesn't mean anyting  not-avgas, it's a specific fuel.

 

Mogas is not sold in Australia.

Our refining for cars, trucks, tractors, stationary engines if different to the USA.

 

 

I don't know if anybody takes the time to read previous posts but I find information in this thread quite confusing?

 

--------------------

I use  exclusively 91 RON in the last 30 years and on previous occasion 91 or 95 RON. 

 

I have never, repeat never, had a plug fouling, starting, carbon build up or any other fuel related problem, while using this grade of fuel.

 

Those that promote the use of higher RON fuels (including AvGas, WTF!!!!!) in such engines are, without so much as a sceric of credibility.

------------------

I have no experince and only anecdotal knowledge of using ULP in LyCons, Jab engines. My local flying school is exclusively Jab aircraft, they all run on ULP 98 RON, have done for very many years, apparently without any negative effects. My Rotax powered aircraft has a preference for 98 RON - will run on 95 RON and if needs be AvGas .

------------------

 

Perhaps I'm being a little picky but if you were trying to learn something by following this thread I doubt you'd have much success. 

[spacesailor]

I use "Avgas " or 98 Ron . Anything less is detrimental to my high compression VW type motor. 

I found that , leaving E10 fuel for extended periods can let the Ethanol separate. 

As I had a crook hip for longer than " Healthy " , my two vehicles were refilled once per year .

Compulsory  road worthy check l

spacesailor

Edited 3 hours ago by spacesailor
Rephrased