American Airlines collision with Blackhawk helicopter. Crashes into Potomac River

[danny_galaga]

60 passengers and crew on board. Not sounding good. Pretty much the coldest time of year.

 

 

https://www.9news.com.au/world/washington-dc-flight-plane-crash-helicopter-what-we-know-so-far/f23953ec-1c5f-4954-88d9-cf9f57f0d41b

Edited January 30 by danny_galaga

[danny_galaga]

Early footage 

 

. I'm sure there will be more to come 

 

 

[onetrack]

I'll be surprised if there's any survivors. You can see the aircraft exploded upon impact with the helicopter, and hitting freezing water at possibly 250kmh, would mean a lot of fatalities instantly - and any survivors would be struggling to escape the wreckage before they froze. I think you get about 10 mins in freezing water before you start to get hypothermia. The aircraft was a Bombardier CRJ700.

[onetrack]

Some confusion over the passenger aircraft load. Some information coming through, that only 38 seats were booked. A small saving grace is that the Potomac is only 3 feet to 7 feet deep where the wreckage landed.

 

Then of course, there's the major question of what ATC were doing, when they must have sighted emerging collision courses - and what was a helicopter doing, flying through an approach lane at low altitude?

[BrendAn]

How the hell did a military chopper get in the way of an airliner.

[danny_galaga]

Part of the air traffic control transcript has them asking one of them if they had the other sighted. It is amazing this can still happen with all the tech in airliners and especially military aircraft. Plus control radar.

[NT5224]

For those of you that know this stuff… Do military aircraft operate on the same frequencies and ATC systems? Flying in the Top End I have had both fast jets and helicopter pass close to me/under me, and assume they didnt even know I was there. I was carrying ADSB but they weren’t on it… 

 

How would  separation normally be maintained between a military helicopter and a commercial airliner?

 

Alann

[BrendAn]

21 minutes ago, NT5224 said:

For those of you that know this stuff… Do military aircraft operate on the same frequencies and ATC systems? Flying in the Top End I have had both fast jets and helicopter pass close to me/under me, and assume they didnt even know I was there. I was carrying ADSB but they weren’t on it… 

 

How would  separation normally be maintained between a military helicopter and a commercial airliner?

 

Alann

i was told the raaf aircraft in our area know exactly where we are long before we see anything. 

[BurnieM]

We have daily half a dozen navy helos and the occassional low level C130 around Shellharbour and they all have ADS-B.

 

[Thruster88]

After watching blancolirios vid it could only be described as a cluster f on so many levels.

[KRviator]

51 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

Part of the air traffic control transcript has them asking one of them if they had the other sighted. It is amazing this can still happen with all the tech in airliners and especially military aircraft. Plus control radar.

Problem is, radar separation requirements are far greater than that required for visual separation. Which is why controllers will clear you for a visual approach vs instrument where possible. And by issuing a clearance to traffic to 'pass behind XYZ' that places the responsibility for separation on the pilot, not the ATCO.

I reckon people would be surprised at just how little collision-avoidance equipment is carried on something like a Blackhawk.

[BurnieM]

7 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

After watching blancolirios vid it could only be described as a cluster f on so many levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouDAnO8eMf8

[danny_galaga]

18 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouDAnO8eMf8

Juan is about the only accident reporter I look at nowadays. 

[onetrack]

The graphics that show visual separation at low level, at high-traffic locations, at night - where there's a huge amount of ground-level lighting - just doesn't work.

 

 

[Thruster88]

Why would the helicopter not cross over directly above the runway?, to be flying in the known approach path of large passenger jets seems stupid. 

[spenaroo]

2 hours ago, KRviator said:

Problem is, radar separation requirements are far greater than that required for visual separation. Which is why controllers will clear you for a visual approach vs instrument where possible. And by issuing a clearance to traffic to 'pass behind XYZ' that places the responsibility for separation on the pilot, not the ATCO.

I reckon people would be surprised at just how little collision-avoidance equipment is carried on something like a Blackhawk.

Especially on a national guard aircraft. 

 

These are the reserve forces. Using older equipment 

[onetrack]

It was a training flight for the helicopter crew, and this "training scenario" is starting to rear its ugly head more often recently in air disasters. Too much looking inside the cockpit, and not enough looking outside?

 

 

Edited January 30 by onetrack

[onetrack]

U.S. rescue authorities have retrieved 28 bodies from the wreckage of both aircraft and they are stating there will be no survivors from the disaster, so the death toll will end up 67 in total.

RIP to the victims and sympathy to the distraught families, there were quite a number of young people on the CRJ700, nearly an entire team of figure-skating professionals.

Trumps response has been to issue an executive order banning DEI hires in any Govt Aviation authority, but there's no proof at this point, that any DEI selection process had anything to do with the crash.

[turboplanner]

There is video of the Tower asking the Helicopter PIC if he could see the approaching aircraft.

[red750]

Trump is blaming Democrat policies and DEI for the crash because the FAA hired people with physical and psychological problems, when last week he sacked all those people, who were replaced by lesser trained people.

[danny_galaga]

9 hours ago, onetrack said:

U.S. rescue authorities have retrieved 28 bodies from the wreckage of both aircraft and they are stating there will be no survivors from the disaster, so the death toll will end up 67 in total.

RIP to the victims and sympathy to the distraught families, there were quite a number of young people on the CRJ700, nearly an entire team of figure-skating professionals.

Trumps response has been to issue an executive order banning DEI hires in any Govt Aviation authority, but there's no proof at this point, that any DEI selection process had anything to do with the crash.

He is a disgusting opportunistic troll. 

[Admin]

Hi All, lets keep the politics out of this...thanks

[Thruster88]

Looking at the replay on fr24, runway 01 mostly and 33 occasionally were in use, this would have been on the Airport Terminal Information Service. The helicopter pilots having sighted the jet may have believed it was on approach to 01 thus placing it further away than it actually was on the 33 approach. Distance can be hard to judge at night. 

[BurnieM]

My understanding is that it did an instrument approach to 01 then a dog leg to visual for 33 and that this was planned for from the beginning.

Apparently this is common approach.

 

[Deano747]

45 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Distance can be hard to judge at night. 

And the Blackhawk pilots were on NVG - no depth perception using them so no 'rate of closure'.