RAA HQ - legal issues and claims

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

Look at what it’s doing to Recreational Aviation? Increased costs, more onerous regulation,

they grounded one of my aircraft on a phone call, no supporting documentation.

They could not manage a kids sandpit, from phone calls I have discussions about, it’s a mess, they have shut down flying schools and owners walked away, had enough.

Yes, there are some great people in the organisation, tainted by the few.

But don’t worry, plans are being made by CASA if it all goes down in a heap.

Sadly, that is what it may take.

For me? It’s no problem, even confiscate my planes, I will go to the U.S. get my factory built Aerolite 103, go there 4 times per year for 3-4 weeks a time and fly happy, in the most enjoyable aviation sector, who’s rules fit on one A4 page. 
Just image getting my radio call for the biggest air show in the World

‘Jack Aerolite, you are clear to land runway,  19 please exit taxiway J and proceed to ultralight parking’ 

Screw Australia, I don’t need any registration or licence to fly into the biggest Airshow in the World 🤩🤩

We've heard it all before. 

[jackc]

2 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

We've heard it all before. 

You will keep hearing it, scroll right past if you don’t like it.

Because  I see no bright light ideas from you, only kicks in the guts for things you don’t like.

[spacesailor]

I will second jackc .

I didn't even get notification that my aircraft 10-1103 was grounded .

spacesailor

 

[jackc]

3 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

I will second jackc .

I didn't even get notification that my aircraft 10-1103 was grounded .

spacesailor

 

I am glad the paper planes I fly in my lounge room are not regulated by RAA 🤩

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, jackc said:

You will keep hearing it, scroll right past if you don’t like it.

Because  I see no bright light ideas from you, only kicks in the guts for things you don’t like.

So what did they do to upset you?

 

[jackc]

21 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

So what did they do to upset you?

 

Turbs, there is a lot of things going on in the background for many people, I spend time on the phone these days, and all I hear is unhappy people, my experiences with RAA have never been good mostly, I feel,I am the enemy to them.  They hammered me this week to pay my membership, a month early, I need to do an article for the mag, I bet they don’t publish it.

I am a target on their lunch room dart board, because yes I am outspoken.

we all have that right to express our selves.

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, spacesailor said:

I will second jackc .

I didn't even get notification that my aircraft 10-1103 was grounded .

spacesailor

 

He's talking about a completely different group of people to RAA Inc. so different people.

[turboplanner]

50 minutes ago, jackc said:

Turbs, there is a lot of things going on in the background for many people, I spend time on the phone these days, and all I hear is unhappy people, my experiences with RAA have never been good mostly, I feel,I am the enemy to them.  They hammered me this week to pay my membership, a month early, I need to do an article for the mag, I bet they don’t publish it.

I am a target on their lunch room dart board, because yes I am outspoken.

we all have that right to express our selves.

RAA Ltd is just there to manage and take a fee for it, pretty much the same as an insurance company. There are plenty around these days who don't even advertise their phone number. It backfires because they never get the feedback that comes in to an Association so they lose the feel and the direction and service quality isn't what's wanted.

 

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

14 hours ago, turboplanner said:

RAA Ltd is just there to manage and take a fee for it

I have found them easily contactable, the staff & board.  They have been helpful with how to handle a couple of our aircraft, one for sale and one returning to the register.  Yes, they do hammer you with reminders that your Rego or Membership is coming due, but they were getting complaints that "No one told me it was about to expire.."  As for feedback - they ask what motivated you to take a plane off the Register, not renew your membership etc.

 

Admittedly, when it was the early days of the AUF, the Bunny Farmer & Myles used to visit our Club/Flying School each year to inspect and be entertained by the troops, so probably wider feedback than just listening to members at a Fly-in or seminar.

[jackc]

35 minutes ago, FlyingVizsla said:

I have found them easily contactable, the staff & board.  They have been helpful with how to handle a couple of our aircraft, one for sale and one returning to the register.  Yes, they do hammer you with reminders that your Rego or Membership is coming due, but they were getting complaints that "No one told me it was about to expire.."  As for feedback - they ask what motivated you to take a plane off the Register, not renew your membership etc.

 

Admittedly, when it was the early days of the AUF, the Bunny Farmer & Myles used to visit our Club/Flying School each year to inspect and be entertained by the troops, so probably wider feedback than just listening to members at a Fly-in or seminar.

No, I will not cancel my membership at this time or take a plane off the register unless I transfer my Jabiru  to VH which is something that can be done.

I’m just a bit peeved with RAA at present on a few things, I know I am not popular on my Part 103 stuff, but really it is only my opinion and no one has to agree with me if they don’t want but it is on my bucket list 🤩

[facthunter]

They were supposed to keep it simpler than GA. MARAP seems like a Crock of it. Nev

[turboplanner]

21 minutes ago, FlyingVizsla said:

I have found them easily contactable, the staff & board.  They have been helpful with how to handle a couple of our aircraft, one for sale and one returning to the register.  Yes, they do hammer you with reminders that your Rego or Membership is coming due, but they were getting complaints that "No one told me it was about to expire.."  As for feedback - they ask what motivated you to take a plane off the Register, not renew your membership etc.

 

Admittedly, when it was the early days of the AUF, the Bunny Farmer & Myles used to visit our Club/Flying School each year to inspect and be entertained by the troops, so probably wider feedback than just listening to members at a Fly-in or seminar.

You've demonstrated the fundamental difference. Many Limited companies now have CRM (Customer Relationship Management) departments that promote the product, lend a sympatheic ear when something's going wrong, survey the clients (why didn't you renew membership etc) the CRM department then records the number of complaints etc and passes them on to the Sales department, Service department, Dealer etc in the form of a righteous admonition to do better in the future, and receive asnwers from the experienced field people in return. The RAA Ltd Company as a Self Administrating Body also has the duty of care/responsibility to handle every aspect of the aircraft class they manage.

 

The Incorporated Body has the same duty of care/responsibility butgets some Government protection for its officers who, by its definition are elected in every State and Territory. Under self management you can administer however you want to achieve the end result. You can appoint Stewards or Field Managers who arew close to the airctaft locations and can inspect them on a regular basis, you can appoint flying Stewards to manage skills and behaviour, you can have a risk management Committee and you can have a Promotional Manager or Committee. You can have a Specifications Committee to decide what new types of aircraft to admit and to phase out types no longer needed.

You can have regional meetings, State meetings or Federal meetings and so on.

 

 

 

[jackc]

1 minute ago, facthunter said:

They were supposed to keep it simpler than GA. MARAP seems like a Crock of it. Nev

Like everything the intent was probably quite good and the ideas for an execution likewise but the more people that become involved in anything and wanna make changes to it. It grows faster than a Los Angeles phonebook and ends up like everything, the original intent  was probably quite good and the ideas for its execution  likewise but the more people that become involved in anything, and wanna make changes to it. It grows faster than a Los Angeles phonebook and ends up with a whole lot of complexity and add-ons far away from the original concept. 
unfortunately, it’s what happens. The more the human beings become involved in anything.

[spacesailor]

Raa informs it's members .

I got nothing regarding deregistering 10-1103 before or after it was removed. 

Raa has never informed me of alternative registration . 

This forum members. are the only people to even suggest,  putting 10-1103 onto the 19- xxxx

Register.  ( OR VH Experimental Register ) .

spacesailor

[BrendAn]

19 hours ago, turboplanner said:

You've demonstrated the fundamental difference. Many Limited companies now have CRM (Customer Relationship Management) departments that promote the product, lend a sympatheic ear when something's going wrong, survey the clients (why didn't you renew membership etc) the CRM department then records the number of complaints etc and passes them on to the Sales department, Service department, Dealer etc in the form of a righteous admonition to do better in the future, and receive asnwers from the experienced field people in return. The RAA Ltd Company as a Self Administrating Body also has the duty of care/responsibility to handle every aspect of the aircraft class they manage.

 

The Incorporated Body has the same duty of care/responsibility butgets some Government protection for its officers who, by its definition are elected in every State and Territory. Under self management you can administer however you want to achieve the end result. You can appoint Stewards or Field Managers who arew close to the airctaft locations and can inspect them on a regular basis, you can appoint flying Stewards to manage skills and behaviour, you can have a risk management Committee and you can have a Promotional Manager or Committee. You can have a Specifications Committee to decide what new types of aircraft to admit and to phase out types no longer needed.

You can have regional meetings, State meetings or Federal meetings and so on.

 

 

 

What's the point of these long-winded posts about what other companies do. 

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

What's the point of these long-winded posts about what other companies do. 

The legal issues and claims as it says in the heading.

[BrendAn]

7 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

The legal issues and claims as it says in the heading.

Ok, but we are talking about a very small organisation. They don't have the revenue or the people for all these positions you talk about.

We just need a simple , honest and efficient system to administer light aircraft.  I would love to see a seperate organisation for sub 80 knot aircraft.  

[turboplanner]

41 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Ok, but we are talking about a very small organisation. They don't have the revenue or the people for all these positions you talk about.

We just need a simple , honest and efficient system to administer light aircraft.  I would love to see a seperate organisation for sub 80 knot aircraft.  

I had 35 Clubs and Associations in Victoria to administer in a State Association and we then had 8 Associations in the National Federation. It worked very well because, for example you could have a 95.10 Club or Association with like-minded people helping each other while, if they wanted, travelling to Interstate swap meets, competitions,etc - anything they wanted to do while the State Body interfaced with Insurance and administation. 

[turboplanner]

49 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

We just need a simple , honest and efficient system to administer light aircraft.  

No you don't, you need the long winded version like I said. These days you have to have key responsible people managing the duty of care for each different activity; no one tells you what to do but you get severely bitten on the bum if you are just winging it and something goes wrong.

[jackc]

44 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

I had 35 Clubs and Associations in Victoria to administer in a State Association and we then had 8 Associations in the National Federation. It worked very well because, for example you could have a 95.10 Club or Association with like-minded people helping each other while, if they wanted, travelling to Interstate swap meets, competitions,etc - anything they wanted to do while the State Body interfaced with Insurance and administation. 

Yes and while everybody cooperates and works together and no egos get in the way and there is a resolution policy in place if anything comes up yes it can all work together and work well but some organisations just seemingly can’t get themselves together and ends up in a disgruntled mess Unfortunately

[peterg]

4 hours ago, turboplanner said:

The legal issues and claims as it says in the heading.

I think you should leave the legal issues alone and stick to what you know - whatever that might be (it's a mystery to me)

 

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, peterg said:

I think you should leave the legal issues alone and stick to what you know - whatever that might be (it's a mystery to me)

 

I don't doubt its a mystery; maybe one day you'll make and original and positive quote.

[spacesailor]

" sub 80 klmts "

Why not "  sub 2litre engine capacity " !.  ( sub 40 hp / 30KW )

When ' calculating wing area ' , are the ailerons & flaps . Taken into the wing area !.

Simple to increase the ' flap/aileron ' surface.  Instead of the wing 'per se' .

spacesailor

 

[facthunter]

These days a  2 litre motor could be Over 200 HP. Fowler flaps increase the wing area when they are extended. That's why they are the Best.  Nev

[BurnieM]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

" sub 80 klmts "

Why not "  sub 2litre engine capacity " !.  ( sub 40 hp / 30KW )

When ' calculating wing area ' , are the ailerons & flaps . Taken into the wing area !.

Simple to increase the ' flap/aileron ' surface.  Instead of the wing 'per se' .

spacesailor

 

The Rotax 916is is 1352 cc and produces 160 hp.

 

Edited yesterday at 05:43 AM by BurnieM