RAA HQ - legal issues and claims

[BrendAn]

36 minutes ago, facthunter said:

People are entitled to the Presumption of Innocence until charged and proven guilty. Let's just allow that shall we? Nev

You do you what you want nev

[facthunter]

Just telling you the LAW. This site doesn't belong to  you.. Nev

[aro]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

People are entitled to the Presumption of Innocence until charged and proven guilty.

Presumption of innocence only exists in the context of a criminal trial and applies to judge and jury. Outside of that people are free to hold opinions and express them within the limits of libel/slander etc.

[facthunter]

Aren't we assuming it WILL go to a prosecution? We can be rightly concerned about the costs so far but a   few people here are not without a  vested interest in  This affair   IF proceedings are not happening , then it's another matter.  WE don't know yet (as far as I know) but only then will some people be free to elaborate if they wish to. I just believe in the fair go for everybody  on such occasions. I'm not against free speech if that's a coming accusation. It's been used before.  Nev

[jackc]

Regardless what happens? RAA are now liable for $300,000 legal fees at this time but we have not been told the whole picture.

[aro]

35 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Aren't we assuming it WILL go to a prosecution?

It might, but even then the presumption of innocence is required from the judge and the jury. Anyone else is free to draw their own conclusions.

From the Coroner's report:

I am compelled to conclude that RAAus engaged in a deliberate strategy to hide these key
issues from the Court. Ms Bailey gave evidence which was false in material respects,
which also served to hide these key issues.

 

There's no reason to presume that to be untrue.

[BurnieM]

There are two potential legal actions here.

 

A criminal action for withholding information from the Coroner.

This depends on how p*ssed off the Coroners Office are and how much pressure their management apply to the DPP.

 

A civil action for negilence in issuing his certificate and endorsements.

His girlfriend appears pretty motivated to pursue this.

 

 

Edited April 7 by BurnieM

[facthunter]

All these budding Lawyers.You are missing your calling. His girlfriend KNEW he was unsafe and knew he was going to fly that day. Nev

[spacesailor]

My wife does not understand torque values .

Everything get the full 'death' grip turn . I have to change 'tap ' washers twice yearly .

Swmbo doesn't drive but owns a vehicle. 

Smart ! , always has a chauffeur. 

spacesailor

[FlyBoy1960]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

All these budding Lawyers.You are missing your calling. His girlfriend KNEW he was unsafe and knew he was going to fly that day. Nev

She was nod a wife who knew nothing, she was training also!

[BurnieM]

13 hours ago, facthunter said:

All these budding Lawyers.You are missing your calling. His girlfriend KNEW he was unsafe and knew he was going to fly that day. Nev

Agreed but this is partial liability.

Also the deceased pilot had partial liability for poor judgement.

While these will reduce the size of the payout it still leaves RAAus with a sizable partial liability for lack of supervison of his training and issuing his cert and endorsements.

 

Lots of legal costs and a sizable payout is the last thing we need.

 

[BrendAn]

14 hours ago, facthunter said:

All these budding Lawyers.You are missing your calling. His girlfriend KNEW he was unsafe and knew he was going to fly that day. Nev

People are allowed to comment nev.

You don't own the site.😁

 

[BrendAn]

I think this court case is a just one of the problems raa is facing at the moment. L2 s and instructors are leaving because it is getting too hard and expensive.

 

[Blueadventures]

25 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

Agreed but this is partial liability.

Also the deceased pilot had partial liability for poor judgement.

While these will reduce the size of the payout it still leaves RAAus with a sizable partial liability for lack of supervison of his training and issuing his cert and endorsements.

 

Lots of legal costs and a sizable payout is the last thing we need.

 

Agree, the instructor deemed him competent for XC.  Yes some schools RAA and GA take much, much longer and we hear stories of stretching out the training to make more money from the student, (don't know could be true; my personal experience is that some instructors stay on the controls for more than 50% of time that you as the student are not learning / gaining experience; I'm talking that they are staying on in control not demonstrating what they want you to do; just showing how good they are, in my opinion.  I don't know the instructor but seems he was very experienced and good.  Maybe made a slight hours required error or incorrect interpretation of experience required.  Hope the investigators look into his images and sms messages to gain what ever info about other power aircraft experience he had performed, as any such would have assisted in his transition ability.

[facthunter]

It's obvious this fellow could FLY.  HE  was probably one of the few "naturals" out there. ANY controllable,  heavier than air THING with a useable Lift/ drag ratio is a plane in my book. The "Weather"  WAS the Factor here. . He even managed to fly in cloud for a while. Someone would have had to Physically restrain him and how could that Happen in a real situation?

 AS an Instructor I would only rarely touch the controls  ALL that stuff should be covered before the flight. at the BRIEFING. I would take over ONLY IF I had to . Nev

[BurnieM]

The biggest problem is going to be the cross country endorsement.

It is very hard to argument that there was any basis for issuing this and it directly contributed to his death.

 

[Moneybox]

1 hour ago, BurnieM said:

The biggest problem is going to be the cross country endorsement.

It is very hard to argument that there was any basis for issuing this and it directly contributed to his death.

 

The guy could have been flying cross country for many years but just decided it was time to make it legal. He could have very well had hundreds of hours in the air before commencing lessons.

[jackc]

Right now, the legal element is that RAA withheld certain evidence from the Coroner.

RAA got busted and the amount spent to date on legal costs has been some alleged $300,000.

Ordinarily, the Coroner could simply have found the pilot died by misadventure of his own doing.

However, when the RAA cover-up was discovered, the wheels fell off everything. now we sit and wait and see whether the DPP do anything.

I am not so sure the family has any real claim but again that is by legal determination in the future.

[turboplanner]

Why not let those directly involved, go through their own processes without these amazing  conclusions which have very little to do with reality.

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

Why not let those directly involved, go through their own processes without these amazing  conclusions which have very little to do with reality.

If people want to talk they will.

You come up with wild theory's about everything why can't we.

 

[turboplanner]

18 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

If people want to talk they will.

You come up with wild theory's about everything why can't we.

 

As long as if Ian gets a phone call you're happy enough to stand up and provide evidence under oath in the court, in person.

[spacesailor]

Politicians  would never do that .

Tell the truth !, that is 

spacesailor

[jackc]

5 hours ago, BrendAn said:

I think this court case is a just one of the problems raa is facing at the moment. L2 s and instructors are leaving because it is getting too hard and expensive.

 

And next we have to deal with RAA and the TAFE College New South Wales project for Training? When I read the communique  from RAA, I felt there was many unanswered questions there.?

[FlyBoy1960]

YAWN..   stop posturing.

 

The RA-Aus are in the pooh-pooh because they lied in court, hid information and got caught out. The DPP will pursue them aggressively if they feel there is a case to answer otherwise there is no use in talking about this any further.

 

The part that is worthwhile talking about is the fact that members money and obviously significant time resources for the staff, which come at a cost to the members, have been used/wasted in defending something which should not have happened.

 

Let's say that RA-Aus spent $300,000 so far (this has been reported on this website) then they owe me and each of you who are members an explanation about what is going on and why they have had to spend this amount of money. I would be expecting an explanation even if it was $50,000!

 

It seems that they have not learned anything from the coroner's inquest findings and they are doing exactly the same with the membership by lying with omission about what is going on.

[Blueadventures]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

And next we have to deal with RAA and the TAFE College New South Wales project for Training? When I read the communique  from RAA, I felt there was many unanswered questions there.?

Not only RAA; SAAA will also recognise and agree with the TAFE course and its recognition as AME.