Reregistering an RAA aircraft

[Geoff_H]

I am looking at buying a 19 class aircraft that has had RAA registration but it has lapsed.  How difficult is it to get reregistered?  What is the yearly cost for registered RAA aircraft?  

[PureCaboose]

Everything you need should be in here : https://raaus.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/RAAus-Technical-Manual.pdf

 

and costs are here: https://raaus.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Schedule-of-fees-and-charges-V3.1-July-2024-1.pdf

 

[Thruster88]

You will need a condition report done by a L2 Maintenance person. Don't buy until the condition report is accepted by RAAus. Sometimes you have to ask why the aircraft became un registered. Seek advice from experienced people not involved with the aircraft. 

[Blueadventures]

As the two replies above say; at least get an inspection report that include for example engine model (with Rotax 912 its better to get a later than 2006 engine due to the better crankcase, some model numbers around 2011 require frequent crankshaft checks via an inserted feeler gauge as examples)  If Jabiru and engine not conditioned for storage it would likely need extensive work and good refurbishment is available. One of the cylinder pressure tests is a good guide and best done.  Both engines would likely require maintenance and parts.

 

Then the airframe and surface covering condition and electrics.

 

As an example I have done inspections that list 20 plus matters for attention; 6 maybe needed before next flight and the others done when suits; my comments are supported by images and if the interested purchaser is not present at the inspection time I would say to them to speak with a local to them maintainer about the listed items and get a cost guide (I will give them a best guess parts cost and time to do guide to assist their considering purchase price if they go ahead. 

 

I've seen some rip-off buys where too much was paid for the aircraft and heaps of costly work required.  Sometimes (almost always) better to pay more for an aircraft in flying condition; unless you want a project. 

 

Hope this limited reply helps.

[FlyBoy1960]

It could just be the rego lapsed because the owner got ill/died, lost his job and could afford to fly, wifey seperation etc. 

 

Its not always a neferious thing that causes a rego to lapse.  He could have just also lost interest.

[spacesailor]

Perhaps , the wings were too small .

Bureaucracy   

knows better than designer .

spacesailor

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Shouldn't have difficulty returning a 19 to the Register.  Even if the engine is out of hours / years, it can go "on condition".  The Condition Report also includes observing it flying.  If it isn't at a flying stage, talk to RAA.  There is a form you use to transfer an unregistered aircraft from the owner to yourself, so RAAus know who owns it.  You can then take your time re-building or re-engining and get a Condition Report and re-register as a 19-  Might be worth talking to RAAus if you know the previous rego.

[T510]

It states on the Form 013 - Recreational Aircraft Condition Report "NOT TO BE FLOWN IF UNREGISTERED"

 

"If possible a flight demonstration should be performed by the owner, or a pilot nominated by the owner, in the presence of the inspector."

 

 

[skippydiesel]

6 hours ago, T510 said:

It states on the Form 013 - Recreational Aircraft Condition Report "NOT TO BE FLOWN IF UNREGISTERED"

 

"If possible a flight demonstration should be performed by the owner, or a pilot nominated by the owner, in the presence of the inspector."

 

 

Typical bureaucratic contradiction - goes to interpretation by inspector. 😈

[Geoff_H]

Well, aircraft reregistered then sold, 4 years later being sold again.  To me seems like a big problem.  Reported not flown since 2017, deregistered 2021, then sold,  now new owner wants to sell.....mmmmm.  Looks like possible corrosion or similar problem.  Got me worried,  scared even.  

[facthunter]

WE don't know what it is 19 xxxx was built under the 51% rule. IF you repair it enough you might qualify as  the builder and still be able to do all the work on it under that rule. CHECK first.  Nev

[Thruster88]

28 minutes ago, facthunter said:

WE don't know what it is 19 xxxx was built under the 51% rule. IF you repair it enough you might qualify as  the builder and still be able to do all the work on it under that rule. CHECK first.  Nev

Under RAAus any owner can do all maintenance on THEIR aircraft regardless of type if it is not used in a flying school, just have to have an L1 endorsement.

 

The "if you built it you can maintain it" thing only applies to experimental aircraft with VH registration regulated by CASA.

Edited yesterday at 05:48 AM by Thruster88

[facthunter]

I thought that had just ended. There has been ongoing problems with some 19 ****' PLANES. and how they are treated with new owners  The 51% rule is back there too for 19 planes Nev

[Thruster88]

15 hours ago, Geoff_H said:

Well, aircraft reregistered then sold, 4 years later being sold again.  To me seems like a big problem.  Reported not flown since 2017, deregistered 2021, then sold,  now new owner wants to sell.....mmmmm.  Looks like possible corrosion or similar problem.  Got me worried,  scared even.  

I see that aircraft on  FB. If you want something to tinker with, perfect. If you want to fly join an aero club, nice safe well maintained aircraft. $10k will get you 66 hours hassle free flying hours at Cowra aero club, almost the same number of hours the used aircraft has flown in it's 25 year life. Reality v dreams.

[BurnieM]

17 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

Under RAAus any owner can do all maintenance on THEIR aircraft regardless of type if it is not used in a flying school, just have to have an L1 endorsement.

 

I cannot see any way to currently get an L1 endorsement.

 

[Geoff_H]

That would be great.   But I live in Sydney,  nearest airport 40 minutes away.  Cowra would be great to join.  If I lived closer I would join Cowra.   Often thought of having a few days every so often.  I would like to tinler, the facebook aircraft does not show with wings on...possible hard landing twisting main spar,  that is a total rebuild in that aircraft.

[Moneybox]

I've just gone through the process of preparing for registration of a 24-**** unregistered aircraft. RAAus have very comprehensive history on the plane even though it's been sitting in a shed/hanger for 12 years. They were very approachable from day-1 which was well before I made the decision to travel from WA to QLD to check it out. I've had nothing but friendly support from them up to this point nearly 12 months on.

 

I have a lifetime of experience in maintenance and manufacture of mechanical things, mostly automotive and qualifications to go along with it but without an L1 I'm not allowed to work on the plane. I have been told unofficially that until registered I can do the work although I'm not sure on that. I can't get an L1 until I have a pilot's license even though I have qualifications in mechanical engineering, auto electrical, transmissions, diesels, air conditioning and more. 

 

Anyway to cut a long story short I did all the required upgrades to bring the plane up to scratch but I couldn't sign anything off. I had to tow it to an aero workshop so that they could paw over it for hours confirming that the work was carried out to the required level. My LAME flew for nearly three hours and spent a day and a half. We fitted the wings, tested the instruments with calibrated equipment, performed the engine leak-down test again, ran it up and down the taxiway to check maximum engine revs at various propeller pitch settings, tested the brakes and park brake and more. We removed panels all over the place looking for control connections, corrosion or anything else. He went through the inflight adjustable propeller manual checking for service life etc. He updated the logbook and maintenance manual with all work carried out and replacement parts fitted.

 

Now it's ready to fly but it's chained to the ground waiting for the red tape to be cut..... I'm patiently waiting.... are we there yet?

[Thruster88]

35 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

 

I cannot see any way to currently get an L1 endorsement.

 

Login to raaus, member training, L1 maintenance. Enrol,  do the learning module then pass the test.

[skippydiesel]

On 28/02/2025 at 4:46 PM, Thruster88 said:

Under RAAus any owner can do all maintenance on THEIR aircraft regardless of type if it is not used in a flying school, just have to have an L1 endorsement.

 

The "if you built it you can maintain it" thing only applies to experimental aircraft with VH registration regulated by CASA.

 An owner can not do own own maintenance ,on an aircraft that is to be used for hire or reward (that includes instructing) - The only exception being, if you built the aircraft, then you can be instructed in it  and do the maintenance.😈

[Geoff_H]

Under Experimental rules you can maintain an aircraft if you built it AND you do a maintenance course every so often, and pay money for the course of course.  Seems a rip off if you ask me.

[facthunter]

Sport flying is not meant to be cheap. It's got to have the Paperwork to appear that all is well, and let's face A  lot know F all about planes and engines, but they like to fiddle and read silly stuff and know better than the designers and manufacturers and graduated at the SBR College. "She'll be Right". Nev

[pmccarthy]

It’s interesting. I am an experienced vehicle restorer and I am an engineer, but I have never wanted to muck about with any of the four aeroplanes that I have owned. I trust a LAME to keep them in good order and I don’t think I could trust myself to do it, because I know I take shortcuts to solve mechanical problems. My cars and motorbikes have never let me down, but I just don’t have the confidence to take responsibility for an aeroplane. If finance forced me to do more. I might think differently, but at my age I am losing skills faster than I am learning them.

[spacesailor]

BUT .

I've had lots of problems with shoddy professionals,  just out to make money. 

Like paying for a full " preholiday " service only to have a breakdown, with replacement parts not being replaced .

Plus oil & filter not changed .

I joined a 4wd club . Who had also decided to do their own maintenance.  Not happy with their ' professional service'

spacesailor

[3rd harmonic]

The 19 reg aircraft that I am trying to fix up has wings that can be removed for transport/storage. To remove or reattach them legitimately and sign that off you have to be an L1. Like moneybox I have a lot of engineering experience and skills but had never worked on an aircraft at that stage. So I went through the process, enrolled in the online course did lot of reading of the FAA reference material and maintenance rules and passed the exam.

The pass mark is high and some of the questions were pretty obtuse, but managed to get it done. I did that some time after I got my RaAus licence.

I stand to be corrected but I think that 24 reg factory build aircraft have to be maintained by an L2 / LAME or they lose the factory built status.

Edited 2 hours ago by 3rd harmonic
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