Regarding private landing strip

[Moneybox]

29 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

It was drummed into us when training!.

Engine Failure After Take-off. 

If too slow getting the nose down, ' you stall ' .

Only four pages ( A4 ) of abrieviations. 

spacesailor

Mrs M printed this 28 page list for me however it's incomplete because you guys keep throwing others at me that aren't on the list 😒

I spend too much of my time chasing the meaning of acronyms when an extra few strokes of the keyboard would display the full meaning.

 

https://curtisaviation.com.au/aviation-abbreviations/

 

Quick Reference Guide to Australian Aviation Abbreviations.

There’s literally hundreds of abbreviations used in aviation, so to make it easier for you, we’ve put together a list of the most common ones you may come across. This list is a very handy resource if you are studying for your Private Pilot License.

[Area-51]

This is an interesting read; better than the daily telegraph or sun mirror...

 

If RU1 zoning then landing and taking off of aircraft is not an illegal issue.

Flying under 500' during the procedure of take off or landing of aircraft, complies with CASA regulations.

 

Landing and take off of an aircraft from a paddock; CASA regulations, in short, area must be suitable for the aircraft in command of to safely clear flight path obstacles according to aircraft's climb performance charts and atmospheric conditions.

 

Aircraft Stalls... aircraft do not just suddenly fall from the sky during a stall as many may believe. A proficient pilot will train for this and recover the aircraft well before the aircraft is beyond the point of control.

 

Wind Shear... aircraft can fall from the sky in the event of severe wind shear; but not like in bugs bunny cartoons Proficient pilots will train for this and anticipate an occurrence during both take off and landing in particular wind conditions.

 

Experimental & General Aviation aircraft accidents and incidents... currently statistics have General Aviation aircraft leading the score board on this one.

 

Council restrictions upon airfields... depends how many people complain to council and how regular aircraft movements occur.

 

Flying Neighbourly... most community and commercial airfields have a policy to minimise pissing off the neighbourhood. This does not always align well when the aircraft pissing off the neighbours all come from another airfield and do not land or take off from the airfield the neighbours are complaining about...

 

Risks Profile & Mitigation Strategy... What are the risks and what is the likelihood of them occurring? Low or High? What are the impacts of each risk should they occur? Low or High?

Flying an aircraft is primarily all about constant risk management; it does not end until the engine is shut down and keys are removed from the switch. 
 

Talking is always best; flying is even better 👍👨‍✈️

[BrendAn]

45 minutes ago, RegularPerson said:

 

on final over the house while annoying poses very little danger. he is setup for landing and gliding in straight.

taking off. its a 100 hp kitfox, he is probably at 4 or 500 ft before he goes over the house.

and we know he is a good pilot because t88 vouched for him. 

anyway i am sure you both will sort something out tomorrow.

[RegularPerson]

9 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

on final over the house while annoying poses very little danger. he is setup for landing and gliding in straight.

taking off. its a 100 hp kitfox, he is probably at 4 or 500 ft before he goes over the house.

and we know he is a good pilot because t88 vouched for him. 

anyway i am sure you both will sort something out tomorrow.

When he takes off, he is definitely not at 4-500 ft. He's more like 200 ft because I can see him just clear the creek trees by about 10-20m which are 180 meters after (he clears the house first, then the trees next) the house.  The creek trees are approximately 30m - 50m tall depending on the tree.

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:41 AM by RegularPerson

[jackc]

Personally, I would not operate from that airstrip. I would have bought a more suitable place to fly from, that house is too close for my liking.  The risk element is probably not that great, but its one I would not be happy with.   

[RegularPerson]

3 minutes ago, jackc said:

Personally, I would not operate from that airstrip. I would have bought a more suitable place to fly from, that house is too close for my liking.  The risk element is probably not that great, but its one I would not be happy with.   

Thank YOU ... I totally concur and agree 100000%

[RegularPerson]

Hi Pilots ... One last question 

 

Do pilot training schools teach and demonstrate stall recovery at 150 ft or similar height ??? ... I know it's probably way too dangerous to do, but maybe under controlled conditions or in a simulator ???

 

I just want to know so if it does happen most pilots can handle the situation and have a safe landing or recovery.

 

Thanks in Advance everyone  

[Red]

5 hours ago, Moneybox said:

Mrs M printed this 28 page list for me however it's incomplete because you guys keep throwing others at me that aren't on the list 😒

I spend too much of my time chasing the meaning of acronyms when an extra few strokes of the keyboard would display the full meaning.

 

 

The thread isnt about you

I'm sure a few extra strokes of the keyboard using google by your good self might give you the answers to simple things like aviation acronyms.

 

[BrendAn]

4 hours ago, RegularPerson said:

Hi Pilots ... One last question 

 

Do pilot training schools teach and demonstrate stall recovery at 150 ft or similar height ??? ... I know it's probably way too dangerous to do, but maybe under controlled conditions or in a simulator ???

 

I just want to know so if it does happen most pilots can handle the situation and have a safe landing or recovery.

 

Thanks in Advance everyone  

Stop posting rubbish. People on here have been very  helpful to you. But you insist on bagging the pilot who has already been vouched for by a respected member of our group.

You made assertions that recreational aircraft are unsafe. That's what we fly and who we are.

Take the great advice you have been given and use it. 

[RegularPerson]

20 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Stop posting rubbish. People on here have been very  helpful to you. But you insist on bagging the pilot who has already been vouched for by a respected member of our group.

You made assertions that recreational aircraft are unsafe. That's what we fly and who we are.

Take the great advice you have been given and use it. 

Apologies for offending any Pilots out there. I'm not bagging anyone and have never demeaned or used any language to label anyone. I've only made my feelings known and my concerns. 

 

I will do as you said and take this great advice. Thank You BrendAn for taking the not insubstantial effort to reply to me and offer excellent advice.

 

I want to thank everyone on this forum and you all have given me a lot of great ideas to work with. Some of you played the devils advocate which is great because group think can be a dangerous thing. 

 

The insights/support here has been amazing and something recreational pilots should be proud of. The fact so little accidents occur despite the number of flying aircraft really shows the quality of the Australian Private Aircraft training.. I hope this thread can be of help to people in the future. 

 

Over and Out .... Brian

[johnm]

OK Regular person - my thoughts

 

 

[aro]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

Pilots often have a personality where they don't like being told they can't do something. But the reality is this sort of thing impacts all of us, because it ultimately results in extra restrictions being imposed.

 

We should be aiming to enjoy our hobby as much as possible without making other peoples lives worse. Taking off/landing low over a neighbour's house obviously makes their life worse. Don't do it, unless you have discussed it with them and have permission.

 

A related situation, a person I know built an airstrip on their property. The local flying schools found out, and started using it for practicing precautionary searches. The neighbour was OK with the owner using it, not so much with multiple aircraft making multiple low passes over their house. The flying school's attitude, at least initially was "it's legal you can't stop us, bad luck". Like I said, these attitudes impact us all.

[johnm]

ooooohhps - I'll try that again ................. OK Regular person - my twisted thoughts

• committed now - can't back out
• what a neighbour does is their own business - you / your (the neighbour of the neighbour) business ends at the boundary line - particularly on rural land - he can race around on a motorbike all day long - noise and dust till the cows come home (he does n't need cows either) - when he tires of that his 12 sons might do the same - staged over the next 20 years - until they leave the allotment
  • you could be a 'drone fanatic' - what happens then
• the size of their land (don't know) and your land (6 acres ?) is relevant
  • did the neighbours property sell with an airstrip advertised
  • assuming all land is rural in the area
• if it was residentail land - motorcycle circuits would probably not be allowed - nor a planted line of 20 m high trres
• when it comes to a neighbouring airstrip ................ I'd go and see your local Council and have a chat with the town planning section - generally such people will tell you what the airstrip man is allowed to do
  • like - was the airstrip always there and was it an allowed use
  • like - private airstrips maybe specifically mentioned and certain rules apply
• armed with that bureaucratic advice - you might get some solace and it could be a card to be used later
• ideally best to nut it out with the neighbour - but good for you to know the bits and bobs mentioned above ?
• me myself - I think you are entitled to your privacy and peace

[facthunter]

What About Flying Neighbourly and keeping people onside. ?" I CAN therefore I WILL" is NOT good enough. It's a $#!t ATTITUDE and does the Movement NO GOOD It has legitimate SAFETY concerns and there's NO Cause to be rude to a Very genuine enquirer and HERE on this forum, WE should welcome such enquiries.  I've been flying since 1959 including Instructing it the type and in windy/ gusty conditions you can't reliably fly over obstacles at low heights. Not can you rule out an engine malfunction. Nev

[BurnieM]

We do not know what the attitudes are (on both sides).

 

We do know that it is rural land.

We do know that there are tree and powerline restrictions.

 

Most people would not fly over somebody elses house if they believed there were other options.

There may be another option that involves moving a powerline. Will both parties contribute to the cost of this ?

 

How about we let the parties actually involved discuss it without further comment here.

 

 

[T510]

From the information here it appears that @RegularPerson is doing the right thing trying to educate himself about the situation he has been placed in seemingly without any consultation from his neighbour.

 

It is also good to see he is trying to come up with an amicable solution. As SpaceSailor pointed out he could make his neighbours life very difficult by planting a line of trees or putting up a flagpole/windmill/mast etc.

 

It's also great that the pilot is known and vouched for by a member on here but whilst we know and respect the members opinion what weight does that really have with a member of the public whose house is being overflown at low altitude.

 

As someone who is currently looking for a property I can put an airstrip on I really hope that a satisfactory solution can be found for both parties

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:42 PM by T510

[BrendAn]

4 hours ago, RegularPerson said:

Apologies for offending any Pilots out there. I'm not bagging anyone and have never demeaned or used any language to label anyone. I've only made my feelings known and my concerns. 

 

I will do as you said and take this great advice. Thank You BrendAn for taking the not insubstantial effort to reply to me and offer excellent advice.

 

I want to thank everyone on this forum and you all have given me a lot of great ideas to work with. Some of you played the devils advocate which is great because group think can be a dangerous thing. 

 

The insights/support here has been amazing and something recreational pilots should be proud of. The fact so little accidents occur despite the number of flying aircraft really shows the quality of the Australian Private Aircraft training.. I hope this thread can be of help to people in the future. 

 

Over and Out .... Brian

will you post the outcome of your meeting with the neighbour. i was a bit rude.  what i should have said was stick to the topic not question training and aircraft reliability. good luck with the meet. very interested to hear if its all sorted out.

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

What About Flying Neighbourly and keeping people onside. ?" I CAN therefore I WILL" is NOT good enough. It's a $#!t ATTITUDE and does the Movement NO GOOD It has legitimate SAFETY concerns and there's NO Cause to be rude to a Very genuine enquirer and HERE on this forum, WE should welcome such enquiries.  I've been flying since 1959 including Instructing it the type and in windy/ gusty conditions you can't reliably fly over obstacles at low heights. Not can you rule out an engine malfunction. Nev

as genuine as the poster sounds you have to remember we only have his side of the story.

[jackc]

I passed my opinion as relating to my personal risk assessment, given my age, experience and ability. 
I mean if an agreement is reached to allow the neighbour to fly? 
Then  down the track the neighbour may think, I need to get another plane, a BIG red one, widda wireless that plays ‘Slim Dusty’  🤩 Guess what? He needs a BIGGER airstrip, so he moves OR Hangar's his plane elsewhere? 

[onetrack]

Vast amounts of council regulations and laws are initiated thanks to ignorant people who care little about other peoples desire for privacy and peaceful living.

 

A person owning an aircraft would show neighbourliness and civility by meeting with and discussing with neighbours, their purchase and intended use of an aircraft - prior to purchasing and using it - especially where that use involved directly flying over a neighbours house regularly, and at low altitude. Possibly made worse by very early morning flights, as is common with aircraft use.

 

This behaviour without consultation constitutes an annoyance and the annoyed neighbour has every right to take steps to eliminate that annoyance.

It's not much different to your neighbour buying a Harley-Davidson with no mufflers, and him starting it up every morning at 5:00AM outside your bedroom window, just over your dividing fence.

 

Aviation activities are strictly controlled at the best of times, despite a few aviators thinking they can do what they like in populated areas, with reference to no-one.

 

 

[turboplanner]

There is a long and comprehensive thread on this on this site.

If you want to build an airfield:

Go to the State or Territory Planning Schemes.

Find the online Planning Maps (interactive)

Input the address

The map will show the Zone and any Overlay.

Go to the Council's Planning site; most have an online Planning portal

Input the address

See what your selected Zone allows in Section 1 or Section 2 (Permit required)

Section 3 shows Prohibited.

Go on the CASA site and find the  Airfield specifications. including splays and approaches.

 

You'll either be  flying or returning it to pasture.

 

If you move in next to an airfield

Follow the same procedure.

Find out how long it has been operating; it may have Existing Use rights.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

I would advise not going down the path of a formal airstrip/field/landing ground, unless there is some other intent/plan that needs this sort of asset. 

• A nicely mown, well drained paddock, of a suitable length, orientation and clear arrival / departure routes,  will meet most aircraft needs. 
• For sizeable rural properties, a farm track can be improved, to serve as runway.

In most cases, neither of the above will require planning / zoning approval.

 

Why prod the beast (Council/Planning Authority) if you don't need to?😈

 

 

[BurnieM]

When you bought your Harley Davidson did you ask your neighbours if it was ok first ?

When you decided to park 5 x B doubles on your rural block did you ask your neighbours if it was ok first ?

When you took a job that required you to start your car/bike/truck at 4am did you ask your neighbours if it was ok first ?

You did not ask because it is allowed to do these things.

 

I believe in not pissing off your neighbours but we all have a right to enjoyment of our own property and in rural areas this enjoyment can (legally) be wide ranging.

 

Its a fine line guys.

 

 

[turboplanner]

 

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

I would advise not going down the path of a formal airstrip/field/landing ground, unless there is some other intent/plan that needs this sort of asset. 

• A nicely mown, well drained paddock, of a suitable length, orientation and clear arrival / departure routes,  will meet most aircraft needs. 
• For sizeable rural properties, a farm track can be improved, to serve as runway.

In most cases, neither of the above will require planning / zoning approval.

 

Why prod the beast (Council/Planning Authority) if you don't need to?😈

 

 

You built an airstrip 8 years ago and got a permit for it. The Specificatioon was to CASA standards.

A character like the one here moves in feels the planes are flying too low and goes to the Council.

The Council checks to see if there's a permit; tick

The permit date is 8 years ago; tick, in most states it will have existing Use rights, so you can't be stopped.

He goes back to the Character and politely informs him the runway end will see aircraft flying 650 ' above his house, so try double glazing.

 

The Skippy Way

Checks the permit files - no permit, so doesn't worry to go further because there'll be no existing use rights.

He checks the Zoning and finds the airfield is now in an Affordable Homes overlay, and Airfields are now in Section 3 - Prohibited.

The Compliance and Enforcement Offier shows up at the door to say there's been a complaint and he noticed you had no permit.........................and it all goes down the tubes.

Edited Wednesday at 03:40 AM by turboplanner

[onetrack]

Quote

Its a fine line guys

It is a fine line, indeed - and tens of thousands of owners of "commercial" machines and vehicles, "push" that line daily. In every populated area, planning and useage rules apply, as Turbo has rightfully pointed out. The planning and useage rules are designed to reduce friction in society between neighbouring parties. Dividing fence arguments cause veritable wars between neighbours.

 

In rural locations, you can get away with a lot more noise and activity and smells, and that's acceptable to most people. The problems often start when a newcomer moves into an area where noisy rural activities are undertaken, and doesn't realise that comes with the territory - they often expect total peace and silence. 

 

Then there's the issue where someone moves in to an area with an aggravating land use, that causes distress to people already there.

In the extremely rural locality of Beverley W.A., a Motorcyle Gang built a motorbike dragstrip (Westdale Dirt Drags and Burnouts), upsetting all and sundry amongst the nearby locals, with vast amounts of noise, dust, smoke, unexpected crowds, and visiting hoons tearing up local roads, leaving rubbish, and damaging infrastructure. But they still get away with it, even though it's not an authorised land use.

 

In virtually all jurisdictions, the residents who have been there longest, have "existing use" rights with their activities, over anyone moving in later.