Jabiru 230 and Short Field ?

[Guest pelorus32]

G'day Ferret,

 

sing out if you want a bit of a rundown on spins and how they relate to stalls.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

ah now i understand what you mean.... stalls are related to AofA not airspeed... silly me.. thank god i was on the computer not in the air... i will be measuring the strip today including all perimeter height clearances.

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

oh and just to add fun my user name is now adrian lewer not ferret.... although it does not matter if you still call me ferret i changed because i could....

 

 

[facthunter]

Handling.

 

Stall speed ( hate the term) is determined with the max AUW and forward Cof G. This will give you the highest stall speed in level unaccelerated flight, because the download on the tail surfaces is at maximum so IT is added to the load that the wing must support.

 

An aeroplane with a forward CofG is a much more benign beast than one loaded to the most rearward position ALLOWED. If you load it illegally further rearwards, then even more so. The feel of the elevator will change, and the effect of the same movement will change, and the whole characteristics of the aircraft will alter. It is as if you had a much more effective elevator, and the aircraft may enter a spin where it would just enter a sink or mushing manoeuver previously, so don't ever think that a certain aeroplane doesn't stall. Because it CAN.. Nev

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

G'day Adrian,

 

welcome to the forums ;)

 

There is a good thread about spins here:

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/showthread.php?p=21708&highlight=spin#post21708

 

One of the points that has been made in this thread is that some aircraft are really benign in particular configurations, and anything but benign in other regimes. An example is the Tecnam which has the most benign stall when clean and treated nicely, but which will briskly drop a wing when in approach configuration - flaps and power for 60 knots.

 

If you read the spin thread then you will see that a spin arises from an aircraft stalling asymmetrically - so the two things can be related.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

hi all went to measure the field today, went to the lock hire place and there where no 1 meter wheels :( so i will have to wait for them to come back tomorrow, so will be some time on the weekend.

 

i will have a read of the article later tonight.....

 

cheers.

 

 

[Guest J430]

Does your car have an odometer?

 

you can guess the last 0-100m or do a 180 turn and measure twice and divide by 2!;)

 

J:thumb_up:

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

LOL yeah want to be accurate... ... i know it will be short...

 

 

[Guest Pioneer200]

Do you have a bike!

 

If so measure circumference, place some form of plastic shape on one spoke that hits front fork each time it goes around, then keep count of how many times it goes round and times this figure by circumference..... you can also possibly do it on google earth if your strip in picture perfect, when you zoom in you it will measure distance for you if your strip goes from one side of page to other.............. GOOD LUCK

 

PS buy a savannah then you can take off on your front lawn!

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

LOL i will not buy a savannah LOL... i will get the wheel from the hire place on the w/end...

 

 

[quentas]

Are you looking to buy a J230 or hire one? If you want to hire one, dont be surprised if the owner/operator forbids you to operate into a `homemade` strip. Of course if you are buying one, you can do as you wish if your insurance company is ok with it. Please make sure you have plenty of room to move when things get `hot and high`. Jabs are superb point to point aircraft providing you use `airfields` at each end. Flying can be more stressfull than fun when things are `challenging`so make sure you have fun. cheers, Q.

 

 

[quentas]

There is a J230 with 70 odd hours in the latest aviation trader for $85k with big dash. Sounds pretty cheap.

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

still not sure what i am buying... but a jab 230 looks like it is out..... but it means room for something else.....

 

 

[Guest Ken deVos]

There is a J230 with 70 odd hours in the latest aviation trader for $85k with big dash. Sounds pretty cheap.

I have the same thoughts. A new aircraft with these specs would cost around $115k. What's the catch? Anyone know more details?

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I'd better put mine on the market if that price is getting you excited!

 

4 Seats, faster cruise than the 230/430 and central locking!

 

 

[quentas]

If they devalued at the same rate as a motor vehicle the you could probably get one for under $50k. I am intrigued. Some possibilities could be it has been `rebuilt` or maybe some kind of `settlement` involved with a quick sale required, or maybe the owner knows avgas is about to run out real soon!! All silly speculation of course!!;)

 

I guess if it hasnt been sold yet, then it will sell real soon.

 

 

[Ultralights]

i think the price will continue to drop on Jabs, as production is almost matching demand, there is no more 12 month wait from placing an order..

 

just the other day, Wally and myself took the J230 up to try to explore its stall envelope, even at 45 deg angle of bank, with 15 deg flap, it would still not drop a wing!! GRRr.. :thumb_up: the technam on the other hand!:ah_oh:

 

now theres an option over the Jab230 if you have a short strip.. full flap over the fence at 50kts in the technam and you can pull it up real quick.. take off is similar using a short field technique.

 

 

[BigPete]

OK Brentc :thumb_up: - I'll bite :big_grin: - why is your jabiru faster in the cruise than the J230/J430?

 

regards

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Easy Peter, because it has 5 foot less wing and doesn't have those *ugly* looking wing tips that do very little and were originally put there for cosmetics (true story).

 

The 230 / 430 got modified cowls with the longer wing that helped ever so slightly with cruise, however the 200/400 has the speed edge and it doesn't hit the proverbial wall above 120 knots.

 

Realistically the only reason for the 230/430 wing in Australia was because at 600 kg's the 200 / 400 stalls over 45 knots so therefore it was ineligible for LSA status. Luckily all the work had been already done for the US and Canada models so it was just a matter of selling a bigger wing.

 

Therefore the J200 is limited to only 95.55 registration at 544 kilos giving it a 45 knot stall.

 

 

[quentas]

Im not sure if the 200/400 are much faster than 230/430. I get 118 indicated (in J230D) at 2800 down low. They may be a knot or two faster but it would be hard to tell. I reckon a good feature of the newer 230/430 is the `shaped` seats which are lower and more comfy than the earlier `flat` style.

 

 

[BigPete]

Thanks for the info Brentc - one thing for sure - there is a lot of variations of Jabiru specs - mistakes on their web site doesn't help either.

 

Maybe we need a database of all the differences??

 

regards

 

 

[quentas]

If the 230 didnt have the vertical wingtips, it would fit nicely under the cessnas in my hangar

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I beg to differ, the J4's and 2's are quite a lot quicker than the J230, no questions there, it's just a matter of aero-dynamics - you can't go as fast with 5 foot more wing hanging off your tips!

 

Depending on how my prop is pitched I can indicate around 125 knots at 1,000ft agl in the cruise with spats. Last time I was up high at 9,500ft it was tas'ing at around 139 knots. Last night zooming around locally with passenger we were comfortably on 130+ at 2,900 rpm. The 230 I've been flying was wound out to throttle last night to try and catch me and in a dive they managed to get 135 at full throttle.

 

Unfortunately you can't get everything you want in terms of takeoff, cruise and stalls, unless of course you buy a Millenium Master.

 

Quentas - the seat base structure hasn't changed it's just different cushions from the factory. That's why it can be good to build your own because you can customise seats to what you want.

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

ok guy's i had word from the president today from the strip where i wanted to fly from it is a staggering 105 meters long... so jab is out of the question. the lsa that landed there had a 5 knot head wind... so must have been touch and go getting in and off again...

 

 

[Guest J430]

105m :ah_oh:

 

Time for a helicopter!

 

Thats even a bit short for a Savannah!

 

You need to forget the home strips and use a field with a real runway! Well one at leats that you can operate from!

 

J