Landing Fees

[facthunter]

No the Airfield Owners CHOSE to  use them and have  a responsibility for how they behave in the way users are dealt with at the end of the day. They generally don't care as long as they get their money  and think they can wipe their hands of the Matter. Easy way out for them. What IF they employed "Strong arm " Merchants? AVDATA is not squeaky clean with their methods and there's TOO many Mistakes for whatever the reason it should not be the Customers Problem who has NO Choice.  What's the POINT of tackling the Airfield owners when you were NEVER within 500 miles of the  Places you are being billed for? Nev

[Paulo]

I have been receiving Avdata every month for the last eleven years, so have some experience with the system.

They do determine billing based on radio data, and yes, they often do make mistakes. However, they have always corrected my bill when they they have made mistakes.

It has been irritating to follow up the mistakes but they are pleasant to deal with and I have never found them unreasonable.

Avdata provides a very convenient way to collect landing fees for aerodrome owners, so that is why it is so widely used.

They only charge for landings, including touch and go's. In the Skippydiesel's case Avdata has made a mistake and they have corrected it.

[skippydiesel]

"In the Skippydiesel's case Avdata has made a mistake and they have corrected it."

 

I did not get the impression, from Avdata, that trying to charge for flying in the circuit was a mistake - sounded to me that this is a charge that the YGLB owner is attempting to levy. Avdata merely passing on the charge. Could be wrong but got the feeling that Avdata not to keen to do so. 😈

[johnm]

my understanding is the airfield owner gets a 'cut' of the landing fee - the 'cut' % age is probably confidential

 

that system is an easy sell for Avdata in that when the airfield owner gets used to the 'take' ................... it's probably then easy for Avdata to get out the thumbscrews ......... and then create a really solid symbiotic mutually beneficial business relationship 

 

[facthunter]

The USER has no say in it.  Like it or quit Aviation.. Doesn't pass the Reasonable test. Like a lot of things in Aviation.  Nev

[RossK]

How's this from Tooradins Website

 

1. Unauthorized Aircraft Movements –  Aircraft entering our circuit area without prior approval will be charged a penalty of $1500.00. 

[facthunter]

   Penfield would have raked in a lot of Dough applying that. People were always zooming through the Circuit there. Nev

[facthunter]

IT IS Bl@@dy dangerous wherever it happens. IMHO.  Nev

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, RossK said:

How's this from Tooradins Website

 

1. Unauthorized Aircraft Movements –  Aircraft entering our circuit area without prior approval will be charged a penalty of $1500.00. 

tooradin seems to have a bad reputation the last couple of years.

[BurnieM]

2 hours ago, RossK said:

How's this from Tooradins Website

1. Unauthorized Aircraft Movements –  Aircraft entering our circuit area without prior approval will be charged a penalty of $1500.00. 

 

Legally unenforcable.

 

Edited Monday at 07:25 AM by BurnieM

[KRviator]

On 30/03/2025 at 2:28 PM, Paulo said:

I have been receiving Avdata every month for the last eleven years, so have some experience with the system.

They do determine billing based on radio data, and yes, they often do make mistakes. However, they have always corrected my bill when they they have made mistakes.

It has been irritating to follow up the mistakes but they are pleasant to deal with and I have never found them unreasonable.

Avdata provides a very convenient way to collect landing fees for aerodrome owners, so that is why it is so widely used.

They only charge for landings, including touch and go's. In the Skippydiesel's case Avdata has made a mistake and they have corrected it.

I'm glad they've corrected it for you.

They've refused to do so for me - despite contacting them in writing over it. They're a parasite on the industry. Look at this very thread, people suggest bogus calls or bogus callsigns in an attempt to avoid being charged, to the detriment of safety overall.

And they don't  "only charge for landings" - I've been charged for overflying airports at 9,500' - verified by ADS-B - because I put "YGLA" on the flightplan as a turnpoint instead of the aid and made a deconfliction call with a departing RPT on CTAF.

AvData, scum of the earth.

[Neil_S]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

   Penfield would have raked in a lot of Dough applying that. People were always zooming through the Circuit there. Nev

 

Not really - the ones doing that mostly don't make radio calls.......

[skippydiesel]

"And they don't  "only charge for landings" - I've been charged for overflying airports at 9,500' - verified by ADS-B - because I put "YGLA" on the flightplan as a turnpoint instead of the aid and made a deconfliction call with a departing RPT on CTAF."

 

I hope you have not paid.

Its the PICs prerogative to set whatever flight plan meets his/her cross country needs, subject to airspace classifications and military activity.

YGLA circuit height is 1059 ft, overfly 1559 ft . I don't think you can be charged for entering the circuit (without landing), let alone an overfly of any altitude,  let alone 9500 ft

 

"...deconfliction call with a departing RPT on CTAF."

Care to expand on this statement?

 

.😈

Edited Monday at 08:59 AM by skippydiesel

[JabiruWeekendWarrior]

Looking at YTDN on the ERSA it shows the web site as www.ytdn.com.au and that does not work as the site cannot be found, maybe updating the web site perhaps.

Anyhoo if you go to the original address and fees: https://tooradinairport.com.au/rates-charges/ valid from Rates and Charges effective from 1^st of January 2024.

There seems to be "Aircraft Landing and Movement Charges per 1000 MTOW", and maybe we are called "Private Itinerants" and for RA people I assume the group "Single Engine Piston".

The price listed is $15.95, i assume per landing maybe, and an extra charge if you park or pick up a passenger.

 

RossK can you still get to the Tooradin web site you saw this message? and what web site is it?

[turboplanner]

18 hours ago, KRviator said:

I'm glad they've corrected it for you.

They've refused to do so for me - despite contacting them in writing over it. They're a parasite on the industry. Look at this very thread, people suggest bogus calls or bogus callsigns in an attempt to avoid being charged, to the detriment of safety overall.

And they don't  "only charge for landings" - I've been charged for overflying airports at 9,500' - verified by ADS-B - because I put "YGLA" on the flightplan as a turnpoint instead of the aid and made a deconfliction call with a departing RPT on CTAF.

AvData, scum of the earth.

An alternative is to choose non airfield check and turn points. Throughout western NSW grain silos appear like clockwork, and so on, and you eliminate any half-asleep, careless or just plain wrong local aircraft.

[facthunter]

You shouldn't have to do that and how is anyone else going to Know where you are?  You can fly parallel and call "abeam" Nev

[turboplanner]

1 minute ago, facthunter said:

You shouldn't have to do that and how is anyone else going to Know where you are?  You can fly parallel and call "abeam" Nev

Recreational flying is freedom, there are multiple landmarks all over the eastern states. What's wrong with leaving a flight at home and making phone calls?

 

 

[RossK]

36 minutes ago, JabiruWeekendWarrior said:

Looking at YTDN on the ERSA it shows the web site as www.ytdn.com.au and that does not work as the site cannot be found, maybe updating the web site perhaps.

Anyhoo if you go to the original address and fees: https://tooradinairport.com.au/rates-charges/ valid from Rates and Charges effective from 1^st of January 2024.

There seems to be "Aircraft Landing and Movement Charges per 1000 MTOW", and maybe we are called "Private Itinerants" and for RA people I assume the group "Single Engine Piston".

The price listed is $15.95, i assume per landing maybe, and an extra charge if you park or pick up a passenger.It

RossK can you still get to the Tooradin web site you saw this message? and what web site is it?

It's on the same page as your link above.

Click the link, scoll down to "Terms and Constions of USE". Item 5. 

Check out Item 4 whilst you're there. Definately not a welcoming airfield

[KRviator]

19 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

"And they don't  "only charge for landings" - I've been charged for overflying airports at 9,500' - verified by ADS-B - because I put "YGLA" on the flightplan as a turnpoint instead of the aid and made a deconfliction call with a departing RPT on CTAF."

 

I hope you have not paid.

Its the PICs prerogative to set whatever flight plan meets his/her cross country needs, subject to airspace classifications and military activity.

YGLA circuit height is 1059 ft, overfly 1559 ft . I don't think you can be charged for entering the circuit (without landing), let alone an overfly of any altitude,  let alone 9500 ft

 

"...deconfliction call with a departing RPT on CTAF."

Care to expand on this statement?

 

.😈

Nope, haven't paid it, and I won't be until they remove the charges. They've refused. So not only those charges, but every landing fee since has gone unpaid as well because they include them all on the same invoice.

Re the deconfliction call, here's an example from when I went to Broken Hill.
"Dubbo Traffic Rex 6866 a Saab Taxiing for Broken Hill runway 05"
"Rex 6866 and Dubbo Traffic Alpha Bravo Charlie an RV 30 miles west maintaining 9,500 overhead time 20"
"Alpha Bravo Charlie, Rex 6866 we'll maintain 8,000 until we've confirmed we're past you"
"Rex 6866 much appreciated sir"

Shortly afterwards
"Alpha Bravo Charlie, Rex 6866 visual, your 11 o'clock low, 1 mile and we'll start our climb to the flight levels soon as we're past"
"Rex 6866, Alpha Bravo Charlie, copy sir, thank you"
 

[jackc]

On 30/3/2025 at 11:37 AM, skippydiesel said:

There is no argument - this is but a question/debate.

I was/am shocked at an attempt to charge for the use of the airspace above YGLB.

Going by the Hervey Bay comment (above), at least one other Australian airfield has tried & failed, to charge for using the airspace above it.

"Most airfield owners have a website where they state their charges." - are you suggesting that; if stated on a website, its legitimate/fair/reasonable?

".......this argument should be with the airfield owners if you are being charged for usage that did not occur." I did fly through (use) the air above YGLB 

Seems to me we should all be shocked by such a move.

What's next, a charge to breath?😈

Pilots Will start turning off their ADSB and not use radios, maybe even turn off transponders near some of these airfields and that’s the last thing we need………

[JabiruWeekendWarrior]

On 01/04/2025 at 2:39 PM, RossK said:

It's on the same page as your link above.

Click the link, scoll down to "Terms and Constions of USE". Item 5. 

Check out Item 4 whilst you're there. Definately not a welcoming airfield

Hi RossK, I found it .."Section 5 Unauthorized Aircraft Movements –  Aircraft entering our circuit area without prior approval will be charged a penalty of $1500.00".

Even more crazy over the top wording regarding banned aircraft.. hmm very strange to bury all of this low down on the web page.

You think if this was a real issue it should be in the ERSA as aircraft flying nearby would not have examined the terms and conditions at Tooradin if they have no plan going there.

I personally doubt they could enforce such a fine for travelling overhead or past, maybe a solicitor/lawyer on this site could confirm if enforcement was even possible as there is no clear notification in the official goverment document called ERSA.

Edited yesterday at 04:04 AM by JabiruWeekendWarrior

[Geoff_H]

7 hours ago, jackc said:

Pilots Will start turning off their ADSB and not use radios, maybe even turn off transponders near some of these airfields and that’s the last thing we need………

Already happened at Cessnock.....well  that was 10 years ago.  For the way they charge it probably still is happening.  Some pilots would report "Aircraft turning Base etc" no callsign.  I moved my aircraft to Maitland  because of the unsafe acts.  I was on final when an unannounced ultralight turned onto base in front of me, no radio call.  I had announce turning base. 

[T510]

9 hours ago, jackc said:

Pilots Will start turning off their ADSB and not use radios, maybe even turn off transponders near some of these airfields and that’s the last thing we need………

I don't have ADSB, don't even have a battery, charging system or a starter for that matter

[spacesailor]

T510

I'm the same " old school " with no electrics  . But can manage a ' hand-held ' radio . ( & signal- lamp ( tricolor ) ) .

spacesailor

 

[RossK]

18 hours ago, JabiruWeekendWarrior said:

I personally doubt they could enforce such a fine for travelling overhead or past, maybe a solicitor/lawyer on this site could confirm if enforcement was even possible as there is no clear notification in the official goverment document called ERSA.

I think they are saying if you join the circuit, then you pay a fee of some sort. Joining without PPR cops a $1500 fine.

I can't see how they have a legal basis to enforce it.