Abolish ASIC

[BrendAn]

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

IF that statement belongs anywhere it NOT Here. Try  Social Australia and try to justify your ridiculous assertion . Nev

 

Edited April 17 by BrendAn

[Red]

2 hours ago, BrendAn said:

I was replying to red not you.

 

SMH

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, Red said:

SMH

Wayoa

[skippydiesel]

12 hours ago, jackc said:

Is a legislative security mandate, ASIC is not going away, regardless. IF you are a CPL, it’s part of your flight bag, if you are a PPL you will need it at some time, if you are RAA, just don’t have one and go to airfields where it not needed.

Just fly happy and IF you need extra fuel? Take a fuel bladder or make arrangement to avoid ASIC required airstrips. 

You would have more chance of tow starting a 747 made out of concrete, than getting ASIC repealed? 

I have never advocated for ASIC to be "repealed".

 

I would like it adjusted, so as not to be required by private pilots, wishing to access small rural airports , usually infrequently used by RPT aircraft,.

 

Its not just about fuel, its also about access to amenities - bed for the night, food, etc.

 

The fatalistic approach to having ineffective, illogical, legislation imposed on Australian private pilots, achieves absolutely nothing.

 

Instead of passively giving in to this badly applied legislation (as is)- why not write to RAA formally requesting that ASIC modification be placed "on the books"  and remain there until archived?.😈

 

Edited April 17 by skippydiesel

[facthunter]

Such comments SHOULD be in Social Australia. Its just a matter of the appropriate place. Aren't pilots supposed top be self disciplined?   Nev

[BirdDog]

Hmm.. Maybe I am out of the loop, but what is the problem here?  

So you need to ID yourself to get to certain airports - What's the big deal?  Heck, I can't get into my local RSL unless I am a member!! LOL!

 

Are you against the cost?  Or just having to ID yourself to get access to certain airports?

 

I don't see the problem, to be honest.  I did mine online, and and with the local PO, and it was painless (yes had a cost) but was a non event!  Lots of tings have a cost.  Car Rego, Drivers Licence, Local Clubs, etc etc.

If the cost of your ASIC is the largest of your problem, then I reckon you have few problems. But that is just my opinion.

But again, I am not sure what the actual issue is here.  10 minutes of paperwork and a visit to the PO.  I go there everyday to check my mail anyway!  LOL!

[skippydiesel]

On 21/04/2025 at 6:14 PM, BirdDog said:

Hmm.. Maybe I am out of the loop, but what is the problem here?  

....................................................................................................................................................
But again, I am not sure what the actual issue is here.  10 minutes of paperwork and a visit to the PO.  I go there everyday to check my mail anyway!  LOL!

The issues, as I see them, are;

 

THE NEGATIVES

• ASIC achieves nothing - it does not enhance safety/security one jot.
• Its cost (to you), while relativly minor in the aviation context, is you purchasing a none product - you may as well burn the dollars (would you do that?) . For the most part you will not be asked for your ASIC, no one will see it. It's a bit of fancy plastic with your photo on (bling) , I guess if it make some people feel like a real pilot - then it has achieved something.
• The applicant is supposed to be subject to an in depth security check. From the number of failures (crims bringing drugs in) this has not achieved nothing, other than to open a security file on the innocent.
• It has been and is costly for the tax/ratepayer - security fencing & gates had to be installed and now maintained - all for nothing.
• ASIC is used to limit access to the  "airside" of an airport to people who have passed a security process (certified as non threatening) - what's to stop the bad people from conducting a terrorist act from outside the airports security fence? - nothing.
• As a PIC of an aircraft, you have the right to navigate where you choose (within the airspace  limits) land at any public airport - this right has been diminished for no  practical purpose/gain.
• The only thing that the imposition of ASIC on private pilots wishing to access certain rural airports has achieved has been to reduce visitation, make fuel management  a little more difficult and ready access to town services problematic - all for no gain.
• I see the requirement to hold an ASIC much like being forced to have ID documents , as in a totalitarian regime. Most of us will already carry multiple de facto ID documents - various licenses, medical & credit cards, etc - how does ASIC add value to this?
• As private pilots, why have we, as part of the general population, been singled out for this discriminatory treatment?- Cars are more likly to be used in a terrorist act. Motorbikes are favoured by certain criminal groups, etc etc - do they have to carry a fancy card suggesting they are right & proper people to use a public space?

THE POSITIVE

• In the unlikly event that you are required to show your ASIC, it will prevent you being penalised - about $5,000

 

The ID examples you have given, all archive a meaningful goal;

• Licenses show you meet certain criteria to carry out an activity (eg driving).
• Rego (in NSW) indicates your vehicle was at the time of inspection, "road worthy" and contributes to road infrastructure development/maintenance.
• Club membership also indicates your conformaty to certain interests/values and contributes to club operating costs, usually confers some privileges on the holder.😈

[skippydiesel]

Why 'Sad" Deano?

[Deano747]

Sad for you .........

[skippydiesel]

10 minutes ago, Deano747 said:

Sad for you .........

Why? I answer someone's question/comments & you are "Sad" for me.

 

Dont be, I enjoy a good debate, particularity when I am trying to help my community (even when they dont "give a fig" )😈

[turboplanner]

On 21/04/2025 at 6:14 PM, BirdDog said:

Hmm.. Maybe I am out of the loop, but what is the problem here?  

So you need to ID yourself to get to certain airports - What's the big deal?  Heck, I can't get into my local RSL unless I am a member!! LOL!

 

Are you against the cost?  Or just having to ID yourself to get access to certain airports?

 

I don't see the problem, to be honest.  I did mine online, and and with the local PO, and it was painless (yes had a cost) but was a non event!  Lots of tings have a cost.  Car Rego, Drivers Licence, Local Clubs, etc etc.

If the cost of your ASIC is the largest of your problem, then I reckon you have few problems. But that is just my opinion.

But again, I am not sure what the actual issue is here.  10 minutes of paperwork and a visit to the PO.  I go there everyday to check my mail anyway!  LOL!

Good advice; simple, straightforward; anyone can do the research to find out the why's.

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Good advice; simple, straightforward; anyone can do the research to find out the why's.

???????? I stand to be corrected; I took BirdDog to be asking a question of me. Some secondary observations/opinion but no advice😈

[turboplanner]

46 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

???????? I stand to be corrected; I took BirdDog to be asking a question of me. Some secondary observations/opinion but no advice😈

You've made your assumptions and position clear over and over again.

That doesn't mean it's correct or that ASIC is an issue for others.

[skippydiesel]

21 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

You've made your assumptions and position clear over and over again.

That doesn't mean it's correct or that ASIC is an issue for others.

Your a joker Turbs.

 

".. assumptions..."

What assumptions?

 

"....position clear over and over again."

Of course - I have an opinion, people challenge me on it, I respond.  This Forum is about aviation matters/debate - what's not to like?  

 

Oh! I forgot you. Dont like to have your assumptions challenged - sooo sooorrrryyy!

 

"That doesn't mean it's correct..."

From what depths of your intellect, does this meaningless statement come from?

 

"or that ASIC is an issue for others"

You are fond of stating the obvious - to what end?

 

Forgive me if I understood that the raison d' etra of this Forum is to discuss matters aviation.

  

Some of the "others" you refer to are clearly happy to engage in debating this topic. Do you wish to prevent them doing so?😈

[turboplanner]

For the others, what I said before still stands.

[Bernie]

I knew a fellow aviator (deceased)

Who printed his own ASIC... never challenged.

 Bernie.

[facthunter]

I would NOT recommend THAT.  DOG only knows what penalties that would attract.  Nev

[spacesailor]

what a pity ! .

I need a certificate  & then can manage the rest .LoL

I mean it's not like a licence from CASA, IS IT ,!

spacesailor

 

[Red]

Do applications for this ASIC thing get vetted or is it purely a paper exercise?

[Jerry_Atrick]

They do apparently get vetted and are supposed to be some form of security clearance and illegal alien thingy check.

 

The UK arguably has a much higher risk of terrorism.  And the risk of other nasties is probably the same, yet we don't have one the is ubiquitous across all CAT (RPT) airports. It is up to the airport to assess its security requirements and determine the implementation. I have flown in Bristol, Cardiff, Exeter (more times than I care to admit), East Midlands (landing fees - ouch!), and Norwich Tumbleweed International on nought more than an phone call and I think East Midlands required a flight plan to be lodged - it was a long time ago.

 

My previous home airfield, Blackbushe, required us to have an identification card.. to allow us to put the fuel on account and pay monthly. and to validate to security out of hours departures and landings. Blackbushe doesn't have RPT, though.. but it has bizjets (famously, Osama Bin Laden's sister, I think, died in a crash there prob 10 years ago).

 

In a country that has far more terrorist attacks than Aus, far more regular RPT (as opposed to Bordsville type RPT) airports than Aus, it is exemplary of the waste of time the ASIC is, in its application across the board. I  guess UK intelligence orgsanisations have more experience than Aussie ones at this sort of stuff and are mature enough not to require this sort of draconioan application.. Or, as was drummed into us from early days in Aus, "it only takes one person to ruin it for the rest of us".. instead of "We'll stop that one person from ruining it for the rest of us".

 

[turboplanner]

23 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

They do apparently get vetted and are supposed to be some form of security clearance and illegal alien thingy check.

 

The UK arguably has a much higher risk of terrorism.  And the risk of other nasties is probably the same, yet we don't have one the is ubiquitous across all CAT (RPT) airports. It is up to the airport to assess its security requirements and determine the implementation. I have flown in Bristol, Cardiff, Exeter (more times than I care to admit), East Midlands (landing fees - ouch!), and Norwich Tumbleweed International on nought more than an phone call and I think East Midlands required a flight plan to be lodged - it was a long time ago.

 

My previous home airfield, Blackbushe, required us to have an identification card.. to allow us to put the fuel on account and pay monthly. and to validate to security out of hours departures and landings. Blackbushe doesn't have RPT, though.. but it has bizjets (famously, Osama Bin Laden's sister, I think, died in a crash there prob 10 years ago).

 

In a country that has far more terrorist attacks than Aus, far more regular RPT (as opposed to Bordsville type RPT) airports than Aus, it is exemplary of the waste of time the ASIC is, in its application across the board. I  guess UK intelligence orgsanisations have more experience than Aussie ones at this sort of stuff and are mature enough not to require this sort of draconioan application.. Or, as was drummed into us from early days in Aus, "it only takes one person to ruin it for the rest of us".. instead of "We'll stop that one person from ruining it for the rest of us".

 

ASIC may have spread to our RPT airports but it was not based on the scenarios you paint or the fantasies of some posters who have no idea what it is all about. I don't have a problem with ASIC and a recent poster pointed out the obvious; that the cost was reasonable and it took up a minimum of time to process. That should be the end of it. My information came directly from a State Minister for Police who told me how many people had been caught, sent to trial, convicted and were safely in a secure prison and had led to protective operations and measures his government was taking. They later shut down an ISIS training centre in the last suburb you would expect to find ISIS influence. With respect to RPT aircraft; the aircraft in question were private (GA in Australia) aircraft; the type you might have found at Berwick airfield, able to be started and flown away by anyone. It should be obvious that governments can't provide specific details day by day of their reasons, the evidence they have collected or their strategies. It should be obvious, but here we are.

 

 

[BrendAn]

I don't mind getting an ASIC but why charge $300 for it and why can't they accept other is that we may already have. For instance my cat h handgun licence took months of applications and security checks ,

Finger prints etc.  surely something like that would suffice for airside entrance. Like everything else now ASIC is supplied by third party providers and they all have their hand out for your cash.

[Roundsounds]

On 11/4/2025 at 6:37 PM, facthunter said:

 You've been told that before. You're flogging a Dead horse. I don't like it either/ It doesn't even count points towards a Passport being issued.  RAAus represents the CASA  Only something LIKE AOPA can do anything. . Nev

RAAus now RAWas

[turboplanner]

28 minutes ago, Roundsounds said:

RAAus now RAWas

We discussed AOPA a few weeks ago; check the current status.

RAA is self-administering certain classes of AIRCRAFT.

We fly in CASA airspace and in other managed airspace.

We enter airfields and airports that cater for other classes of aircraft.

We enter various grades of secure space.

 

RAA isn't the umbrella for the lot, and nor is CASA and nor is AOPA - people just pick on one to have a spit and that's telling in itself.

 

[facthunter]

AOPA is a different  functioning thing entirely to the other two. It can freely  advocate for Pilots and Aircraft owners.. That's it purpose. Nev