Abolish ASIC

[pmccarthy]

I recently got an AVID which cost, I think, around $100. It is just a letter saying that you have had a security check. I have not found out when or where to use it. I am particularly interested to know whether it will save me from a fine if I enter a security controlled airport alone or with passengers. If not, what is it for?

[Jerry_Atrick]

I understand the AVID is required to fly anywhere in Aus, where as the ASIC is required to be able for security controlled airports (unless you can arrange someone with an ASIC to escort you in the secured parts of the airport at all times).

 

From memory, ASIC lasts two years and AVID lasts 5

 

Haven't read this and often I have found CASA general info web pages out of date: 

Security requirements for pilots

WWW.CASA.GOV.AU

---

Learn about the aviation security requirements for pilots and how to apply for your preferred option.

 

Edited Friday at 03:26 PM by Jerry_Atrick

[skippydiesel]

Hi Jerry,

 

I had forgotten just how badly writen, full of apparent contradictions, crazy prerequisites & exceptions, the "Security  requirements for pilots"  & the associated document, is.

 

Here are a few examples:

• Pilots under 18 must have an ASIC (2 years)
• Pilots under 18 can not apply for an AVID (5 years)
• AVID's do not give the holder access to airside/security area of an airport.
• You can be escorted by an AVID holder ithrough the security area
• To hold an AVID you must have a currentaviaton medical (sick people being known security risks)
• ASIC would seem to be aimed at work related needs (not private pilots)
• Red ASICS give you some access to security controlled/airside areas
• Grey ASICS do not give you access to airside- why would you want or need one?
• White ASICS give sweet FA.
• Then there is a VIC - Bureaucracy gone completely made 

  "A visitor identification card (VIC) can be issued to a person, if the person needs to enter a secure area of a security controlled airport for a lawful purpose.

  Followed by more insanity the Temporary AirCrew Card 

• "A Temporary Aircrew Card (TAC) can be issued by an aircraft operator if either of the following applies: the person holds a valid red or grey ASIC, however, the person does not physically have their ASIC on them"

Further confusion;

 

(1) Subject to subregulations (4), (4A) and (5), regulations 3.05 to 3.09 and subregulations 3.18(2) and 3.26(2):

 (a) a person in the airside security zone of a security controlled airport must properly display a valid red ASIC; and

 (b) a person in a secure area (other than the airside security zone) of such an airport must properly display either a valid red ASIC or a valid grey ASIC.

 

4A) At a security controlled airport from or to which no screened air service operates, paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) apply only during traffic periods.😈

[Roundsounds]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

Hi Jerry,

 

I had forgotten just how badly writen, full of apparent contradictions, crazy prerequisites & exceptions, the "Security  requirements for pilots"  & the associated document, is.

 

Here are a few examples:

• Pilots under 18 must have an ASIC (2 years)
• Pilots under 18 can not apply for an AVID (5 years)
• AVID's do not give the holder access to airside/security area of an airport.
• You can be escorted by an AVID holder ithrough the security area
• To hold an AVID you must have a currentaviaton medical (sick people being known security risks)
• ASIC would seem to be aimed at work related needs (not private pilots)
• Red ASICS give you some access to security controlled/airside areas
• Grey ASICS do not give you access to airside- why would you want or need one?
• White ASICS give sweet FA.
• Then there is a VIC - Bureaucracy gone completely made 

  "A visitor identification card (VIC) can be issued to a person, if the person needs to enter a secure area of a security controlled airport for a lawful purpose.

  Followed by more insanity the Temporary AirCrew Card 

• "A Temporary Aircrew Card (TAC) can be issued by an aircraft operator if either of the following applies: the person holds a valid red or grey ASIC, however, the person does not physically have their ASIC on them"

Further confusion;

 

(1) Subject to subregulations (4), (4A) and (5), regulations 3.05 to 3.09 and subregulations 3.18(2) and 3.26(2):

 (a) a person in the airside security zone of a security controlled airport must properly display a valid red ASIC; and

 (b) a person in a secure area (other than the airside security zone) of such an airport must properly display either a valid red ASIC or a valid grey ASIC.

 

4A) At a security controlled airport from or to which no screened air service operates, paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) apply only during traffic periods.😈

Bottom line is if you’re a private pilot and not based at or regularly operating from a Security Controlled airport get an AVID. You could argue any pilot who doesn’t have the need for an ASIC is breaking the law by obtaining one. When I have to pay for my own ASIC I’ll be switching to an AVID. 

[pmccarthy]

That was my thinking, I had an ASIC from when they came in, but this time I decided to follow the instructions on the ASIC application. It says that you can only apply if you have a regular need to access security controlled airports. I have only done it half a dozen times in twenty years so I should not apply for an ASIC.

[440032]

You are correct Peter. (p.s. we sold your plane)

 

Transport Security Regulations 2005

6.28 an issuing body may issue an ASIC only if (a) the person has an operational need for an ASIC.

6.01 Definitions

Operational need means a requirement for frequent access to all or part of a secure area.... (airport or aircraft operation...)

 

I have virtually no operational need for an ASIC, therefore I am not even eligible to apply for one. Sure, I could just say I have frequent need, but that is not true.

I have been airside going about my business (not flying) (once a year approx) at various capital city airports over the years with no ASIC. Even clearly seen by roving security at one. What happened? Nothing.

[skippydiesel]

6 hours ago, Roundsounds said:

Bottom line is if you’re a private pilot and not based at or regularly operating from a Security Controlled airport get an AVID. You could argue any pilot who doesn’t have the need for an ASIC is breaking the law by obtaining one. When I have to pay for my own ASIC I’ll be switching to an AVID. 

 

1 hour ago, pmccarthy said:

That was my thinking, I had an ASIC from when they came in, but this time I decided to follow the instructions on the ASIC application. It says that you can only apply if you have a regular need to access security controlled airports. I have only done it half a dozen times in twenty years so I should not apply for an ASIC.

• AVID's do not give the holder access to airside/security area of an airport.

Read my brief summary - above.

 

I thought it did, until I read the regulations this morning 😈

[Thruster88]

What we need is Avid+, or Avid premium, $20 extra for the extra button press or two on the security computer back ground check. Good for those who only need occasional access to "secure" regional airports, same 5 year duration or make it 10 like a passport,  then I think we would all be happy. 

 

If I was a journalist there would be many questions. 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 07:53 AM by Thruster88

[BurnieM]

What we need is the same system as the country with the Twin Towers incident that started all this.

 

[coljones]

This suggests that you need to have a CASA license to get an ASIC.

 

"

Applying for your ASIC

Paying for and Collecting your ASIC

 

 

As a General Aviation pilot who is not paid in their role (i.e. a member of a general aviation flight club), you will not have an Employer who can sponsor your operational need. 

 

When applying in the Applicant Portal, you will be asked to enter an Employer Code. 

You will need to use an Employer Code provided by AusCheck specifically for General Aviation pilots. To obtain this code you should speak to your flight club or contact AusCheck. 

 

AusCheck will validate your pilot's licence with CASA prior to sending your application for background checking. 

 

Operational Need Template for General Aviation: 

 

"I am a recreational pilot and hold a current Flight Crew Licence ... (Licence Number) issued by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA). I require an ASIC for unescorted access to ... (specify location or locations if AUS wide is required) to support this activity. 

 

You will be required to bring your flight crew licence to the identity verification appointment to be uploaded as evidence of operational need. There will be no other changes to the identity verification process. 

 

Canberra Region General Aviation pilots: You will need to ensure you select Department of Home Affairs - Canberra when choosing your Verifier.

 

South Australian General Aviation pilots: You will need to ensure you select Department of Home Affairs - AusCheck - Adelaide Airport when choosing your Verifier."

 

SUCH IS LIFE 

[BurnieM]

Yep.

You need an ASIC before applying for a RPL or PPL.

I believe you do not have to maintain it after the first issue.

 

Edited Saturday at 10:07 AM by BurnieM

[skippydiesel]

I think all would agree, on one point  -CONFUSION reigns, and this after 24 years of failed action.

 

This point alone begs the question - why on earth  do we still have it?????????

[skippydiesel]

13 hours ago, BurnieM said:

Yep.

You need an ASIC before applying for a RPL or PPL.

I believe you do not have to maintain it after the first issue.

 

Makes limited sense.

 

When I did my PPL (before ASIC), part of the training/qualifying, was at least one solo flight into a complex airport.

My flights were into Canberra (Sydney being far to expensive).

I assume that to do this now and exit the aircraft  the pilot would be required to hold an ASIC.

 

NOTE: "exiting the aircraft" As far as I understand the regulations, there is no rule/law against landing at a Security Controlled Airport. Should you exit your aircraft (say to use the toilet/refuel) you may be required to hold an ASIC.😈

 

Once again this shows just how stupid the ASIC laws, for private pilots, wishing to access small regional airports, are😈

[johnm]

1.  interesting pint skippy - you are saying - with a PPL or CPL you could do a touch and go at Sydney international airport ......... and you would not need an ASIC card ?

 

2.  in that instance ......... does the legislation say you need an ASIC card ?

[skippydiesel]

56 minutes ago, johnm said:

1.  interesting pint skippy - you are saying - with a PPL or CPL you could do a touch and go at Sydney international airport ......... and you would not need an ASIC card ?

 

2.  in that instance ......... does the legislation say you need an ASIC card ?

As far as this uneducated person can understand, through the contradictions/confusion of the legislation:

• There is no mechanism to check for the existence or not, of a PIC holding an ASIC, while they remain in the aircraft.
• Further, a PIC who has no ASIC, can arrange for an ASIC holder to escort them to/from their aircraft, subject to the airport being willing to provide such a service.😈

[skippydiesel]

Sorry Johnm - did not fully answer your question;

 

From the link provided by Jerry_ Atrick (above);

 

"You need an ASIC if you're flight crew flying at a security controlled airport, or a pilot under the age of 18. It allows you to operate at any airport in Australia."

• My reading of the ambiguous statement above ; You will only need an ASIC if wishing to use the airside services of a security controlled airport ie operate from, fly into, get out of aircraft for something like fuel/pee.
• It would seem pilots under 18 are a particular security risk ??????. The upside is a lower cost for the ASIC - why would to charge an underage terrorist the adult fee?
• The statement "It allows you to operate at any airport in Australia" is contradicted elsewhere, when it states that a Red ASIC does not give the holder automatic right of entry to an airport airside secure zone.

Note: ASIC may not be required if you wish to land "At a security controlled airport from or to which no screened (??) air service operates.....", when there is no traffic (RPT?) operating

 

There are a host of exemptions eg A person in ADF uniform, a person assisting in the transport of livestock (horse), doctors, cops, etc etc

[BirdDog]

On 23/04/2025 at 9:17 AM, skippydiesel said:

The issues, as I see them, are;

 

THE NEGATIVES

• ASIC achieves nothing - it does not enhance safety/security one jot.
• Its cost (to you), while relativly minor in the aviation context, is you purchasing a none product - you may as well burn the dollars (would you do that?) . For the most part you will not be asked for your ASIC, no one will see it. It's a bit of fancy plastic with your photo on (bling) , I guess if it make some people feel like a real pilot - then it has achieved something.
• The applicant is supposed to be subject to an in depth security check. From the number of failures (crims bringing drugs in) this has not achieved nothing, other than to open a security file on the innocent.
• It has been and is costly for the tax/ratepayer - security fencing & gates had to be installed and now maintained - all for nothing.
• ASIC is used to limit access to the  "airside" of an airport to people who have passed a security process (certified as non threatening) - what's to stop the bad people from conducting a terrorist act from outside the airports security fence? - nothing.
• As a PIC of an aircraft, you have the right to navigate where you choose (within the airspace  limits) land at any public airport - this right has been diminished for no  practical purpose/gain.
• The only thing that the imposition of ASIC on private pilots wishing to access certain rural airports has achieved has been to reduce visitation, make fuel management  a little more difficult and ready access to town services problematic - all for no gain.
• I see the requirement to hold an ASIC much like being forced to have ID documents , as in a totalitarian regime. Most of us will already carry multiple de facto ID documents - various licenses, medical & credit cards, etc - how does ASIC add value to this?
• As private pilots, why have we, as part of the general population, been singled out for this discriminatory treatment?- Cars are more likly to be used in a terrorist act. Motorbikes are favoured by certain criminal groups, etc etc - do they have to carry a fancy card suggesting they are right & proper people to use a public space?

THE POSITIVE

• In the unlikly event that you are required to show your ASIC, it will prevent you being penalised - about $5,000

 

The ID examples you have given, all archive a meaningful goal;

• Licenses show you meet certain criteria to carry out an activity (eg driving).
• Rego (in NSW) indicates your vehicle was at the time of inspection, "road worthy" and contributes to road infrastructure development/maintenance.
• Club membership also indicates your conformaty to certain interests/values and contributes to club operating costs, usually confers some privileges on the holder.😈

 

Sorry for the really late reply - I have been away.

 

To answer one of your statements -  "For the most part you will not be asked for your ASIC, no one will see it"


I get asked for my ASIC every time I need to get back to my aircraft at Canberra.  If I land, and leave the AD (which is what I do all of the time) they will not let me airside without it.  Mr Security Man asks me for it - EVERY TIME - Even though he likely knows my face now, he will not let me past the gate without it.

I have also been bailed up and asked for it the last 2 times I visited Shell Harbour.  In fact, I was reprimanded because it was in my pocket and not yet around my neck.

 

They are the two main security ADs I visit (Oh.. and Albury) but I have not had anyone ask me there yet, but have only been twice.

 

Plus.... I travel OS a lot and get the fees waived for money exchange when I go - which is nice.

 

Meh - it's a non event to me. But understand some may take exception!  Each to their own!

Cheers

J

 

[johnm]

true BD ............. but its always advantageous to discuss the absurdity of things (if seen as absurd)

 

something good might come of it

 

by their nature - bureaucracies must go there (either required, not required, willingly or reluctantly) 

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Hi BirdDog,

 

Canberra is not a small regional airport.

Albury is not a small regional airport

 

My beef is not with security arrangements at major national/international /high traffic airports and never has been. Its with small regional airports, most (all?) without a tower,  many of which have one or two RPT movements a day, sometimes a week.

 

Shell Harbour is a small, regional airport - I wonder who would be challenging you there for an ASIC? Security guard? HARS volunteer?

 

Your experince at Shell Harbour is not what most pilots flying in the regions have experienced

 

That you are comfortable with having your rights, as a pilot, diminished, for no tangible gain, is your prerogative.

 

I see ASIC as an unreasonable & unjustifiable attack on my rights, that has negative safety implications, all for no improvement in security😈

[facthunter]

WE understand that by now.  How many times have you said much the same thing?    Nev