R-44 crash at Moorabbin 17-04-2025

[red750]

A Robinson R-44 crashed at Moorabbin with non-life threatening injuries to the pilot and passenger. The helicopter had only been in the air 5 minutes when it returned and crashed while landing. It ended up on it's side with the tail boom bent 90 deg down.

[kgwilson]

R22s & R44s seem to appear in a lot of rotorwing crashes. Maybe that is because there are a lot of them in service (AFAIK they are the largest selling choppers in the world) or some other cause. I have not done any research at all. A friend of mine flew R44s for some years in the NT & QLD doing survey work for mines & had an auto rotate incident in the middle of nowhere on a ridge when he had both magnetos fail.

[red750]

A photo off the TV of VH-KKM.

 

[facthunter]

BOTH magneto's failing at the same time is hard to believe.   Low inertia rotors are more difficult/critical to do auto rotates with. . Yes there's a LOT of Robbo's around. Nev

[Underwood]

8 hours ago, facthunter said:

BOTH magneto's failing at the same time is hard to believe.   Low inertia rotors are more difficult/critical to do auto rotates with. . Yes there's a LOT of Robbo's around. Nev

I've only 1 single hour of tuition in an R22, but was told by the instructor that you have literally a second or so to drop the collective on an engine out in the R22, the rotor inertia being so low.

Apparently the R44 is a little more forgiving

Coincidently I was watching an R44 doing practice autorotations today at Berrow and it all looked quite relaxed, but of course thats no indication of what was going on in the cockpit

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, Underwood said:

I've only 1 single hour of tuition in an R22, but was told by the instructor that you have literally a second or so to drop the collective on an engine out in the R22, the rotor inertia being so low.

Apparently the R44 is a little more forgiving

Coincidently I was watching an R44 doing practice autorotations today at Berrow and it all looked quite relaxed, but of course thats no indication of what was going on in the cockpit

That's correct, so it will be interesting to see what ATSB have to say. 

Just looking at the statistics for Moorabbin, a helicopter down on the Moorabbin field would be 1 per 2.9 million movements You can adjust the 1 to more if you can remember more.

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

That's correct, so it will be interesting to see what ATSB have to say. 

Just looking at the statistics for Moorabbin, a helicopter down on the Moorabbin field would be 1 per 2.9 million movements You can adjust the 1 to more if you can remember more.

i was told i was talking bs by a member who hunts facts but what you said here proves the statistics i found would be correct.

choppers rarely crash and if you took the pilot error crashes out of it i think they would be shown to be extremely reliable.

[facthunter]

It's  not ONE /2.9 MILLION chopper movements at Moorabbin .   You need a separate rate for choppers to be meaningful.  There's been plenty of horrific Heli crashes lately. Serious crash investigators don't use the term "Pilot error" a lot these days. They look for the reason something happened. Nev

[BrendAn]

20 minutes ago, facthunter said:

It's  not ONE /2.9 MILLION chopper movements at Moorabbin .   You need a separate rate for choppers to be meaningful.  There's been plenty of horrific Heli crashes lately. Serious crash investigators don't use the term "Pilot error" a lot these days. They look for the reason something happened. Nev

the statistics are available, you can look them up . when i say pilot error maybe i could choose a better term . i mean accidents that are not mechanical failure.

like the seaworld  and the washington  accidents.  both collisions.

[facthunter]

Do you have heli experience? They are complex and don't cope with any mechanical failure well, whereas  a Jet liner is very system redundant and an all engines out airliner will glide over 100 NM from 33,000 feet and remains fully controllable at all times. Rotary wing are also maintenance and inspection intensive and hard to fly slow in cloud and most would say more difficult to fly well. .Nev 

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

i was told i was talking bs by a member who hunts facts but what you said here proves the statistics i found would be correct.

choppers rarely crash and if you took the pilot error crashes out of it i think they would be shown to be extremely reliable.

 

Yes

[facthunter]

We should  ALL be FACT hunters.   Nev

[turboplanner]

55 minutes ago, facthunter said:

It's  not ONE /2.9 MILLION chopper movements at Moorabbin .   You need a separate rate for choppers to be meaningful.  There's been plenty of horrific Heli crashes lately. Serious crash investigators don't use the term "Pilot error" a lot these days. They look for the reason something happened. Nev

Sometimes you would be better off sitting back and reading exactly wah people say rather than going off at an unrelated tangent and abusing people. The figures ARE for HELICOPTERS so ARE  a "separate rate for chppers (sic).  The post is about non fatal crashed at Moorabbing, so "There's been plenty of horrific Heli crashes lately is about as relevant as who won the last rugby match in Georgetown.   I'll leave you're lecture to the investigators you're targetting.

[aro]

3 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Just looking at the statistics for Moorabbin, a helicopter down on the Moorabbin field would be 1 per 2.9 million movements You can adjust the 1 to more if you can remember more.

Over what period?

A quick search on the ATSB website showed 10 helicopter investigations at Moorabbin, so you have to be pretty selective on the timeframe to come up  with only 1.

[facthunter]

Pathetic Turbs.  YOU have been abusive of ME since this Forum started. . I strongly reject the suggestion that I abuse people. Substantiate  it  or don't state it.  Nev

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, aro said:

Over what period?

A quick search on the ATSB website showed 10 helicopter investigations at Moorabbin, so you have to be pretty selective on the timeframe to come up  with only 1.

Please read my post more carefully; this was just a side discussion at the most.

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

Do you have heli experience? They are complex and don't cope with any mechanical failure well, whereas  a Jet liner is very system redundant and an all engines out airliner will glide over 100 NM from 33,000 feet and remains fully controllable at all times. Rotary wing are also maintenance and inspection intensive and hard to fly slow in cloud and most would say more difficult to fly well. .Nev 

you keep coming up with fixed wing comparisons. no one is arguing that. we are talking heli accidents.  and i do have extensive helicopter experience.

at school i did a weeks work experience sweeping the floor at the esso heliport and i walked past a sikorski gearbox 5 days in a row. what more do you want.😁

[onetrack]

It's interesting that the above-mentioned crash happened during training. Training crashes seem to be much higher in helicopters than in fixed wing aircraft, I believe it has a lot to do with students having difficulty developing the unique skills set and control sensitivity, that's required to fly a helicopter.

 

This company insists helicopters are safer than fixed wing aircraft - but they would say that, wouldn't they? - they're a helicopter company!

 

https://www.helicopterexpress.com/blog/helicopter-safety#:~:text=Myth %231: Helicopters Are More,operations%2C and disaster relief efforts.

[BrendAn]

1 minute ago, onetrack said:

It's interesting that the above-mentioned crash happened during training. Training crashes seem to be much higher in helicopters than in fixed wing aircraft, I believe it has a lot to do with students having difficulty developing the unique skills set and control sensitivity, that's required to fly a helicopter.

 

This company insists helicopters are safer than fixed wing aircraft - but they would say that, wouldn't they? - they're a helicopter company!

 

https://www.helicopterexpress.com/blog/helicopter-safety#:~:text=Myth %231: Helicopters Are More,operations%2C and disaster relief efforts.

modern gyros would possibly be the safest aircraft although limited in what missions they can do.

[facthunter]

You're sourcing  from a Heli Promoting site.  Coal mining companies promote coal.  Nuclear doesn't tell you the downsides either.   Nev

[rankamateur]

On 18/04/2025 at 3:18 AM, Underwood said:

I've only 1 single hour of tuition in an R22, but was told by the instructor that you have literally a second or so to drop the collective on an engine out in the R22, the rotor inertia being so low.

Apparently the R44 is a little more forgiving

Coincidently I was watching an R44 doing practice autorotations today at Berrow and it all looked quite relaxed, but of course thats no indication of what was going on in the cockpit

A local R22 owner pilot told me you have 0.3 seconds to react to power failure. Different instructor?

[facthunter]

You don't have time to look at your watch.  Below a certain height and forward speed you are in the $#!t anyhow. Same as a draggy ultralight.  Nev