GA to RAA - Minimum Time or Just Competency?

[poteroo]

There's an article of interest to all instructors in June 'Kitplanes' p74.

 

The huge US aviation insurer, AVEMCO, (50,000 aircraft & pilots covered), revealed that it's losses in LSA, (factory built), are double that of GA. Many of the accidents involve highly experienced GA pilots. As a consequence, AVEMCO are insisting on a minimum of 5 hrs transition training. This is supported by some experienced instructors, who, interestingly, mention that some high time pilots consider the minimum hours insulting!

 

As we are soon to change from a minimum 5 hrs conversion from GA to RAAus, to a straight out competency based system, I thought this article quite timely. What do you think?

 

happy days,

 

 

[Barefootpilot]

Thats very interesting. Yes 5 hours does seem over the top at first but looking at it most people converting to RAA from GA are people who haven't flown for years or if they have don't do many hours a year. So a 5 hour refresher is not a bad thing.

 

I haven't kept up with the new rules to much are they still going to serperate the rag a tube from the plastics with a performance rateing? This is something that really needs to happen. If you get a licence in a drifter and then go and buy a CT you are going to end up in trouble very quickly even though you are legal.

 

Adam

 

 

[Guest airsick]

I haven't kept up with the new rules to much are they still going to serperate the rag a tube from the plastics with a performance rateing?

Yes, there is still a high performance/low performance endorsement in there.

 

This is something that really needs to happen. If you get a licence in a drifter and then go and buy a CT you are going to end up in trouble very quickly even though you are legal.

It can happen the other way around too.

 

I think the important thing to remember here is that the final call rests with the instructor. If he/she doesn't think you are competent then they won't sign you off. Not having a 5 hour requirement doesn't oblige them to sign you off in less just like having it didn't oblige them to sign you off as soon as you had 5 hours.

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

The situation is pretty much self-solving. If you have a good current GA Jock converting onto a Gazelle then they may only require an hour and can spend the other four hours flying solo - but still under the supervision of a school to check consistency.

 

On the other hand no matter how good they were if they were converting via a Thruster, Skyfox etc then they may need every minute of that five hours to cover the transition adequately and probably a few hours more if they have no taildragger experience (which is not uncommon).

 

Regarding CBT all I can say is Gawd help us if that comes in as was intended. It will be an expensive and crippling inhibition on a teaching area that is anyway competency based.

 

Aye

 

Tony

 

 

[BigPete]

I would say that all instructors have a vested interest in their students surviving. Ex students/GA conversions coming to grief do not make for a good reputation. i_dunno

 

We all slow down a little as we get older - and I believe most GA converts would be in the "older" age group. It takes more time. :big_grin:

 

The instructor will know when you're ready. :thumb_up:

 

regards

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I reckon that 5 hours is reasonable.. You need time to see the guy in a lot of different conditions.. I recently converted a bloke who had a cpl and learned on warriors.. After takeoff he put his feet on the floor instead of the rudder pedals..This was in the jab mind you..The very first turn onto crosswind exposed his weakness.. As a lot of you would know, flying in smooth conditions is quite a different bag then flying in a choppy xwind , more so in an ultralight.. The correct use of rudder is just one aspect of converting, but is usually the first thing GA converts notice, and the last thing to master..

 

 

[Guest brentc]

From what I've seen, it should be nearer to 10, but not for everyone so 5 hours is a good start. It took me 10 hours to get a 700 hour PPL up to speed on a jab. Another member of this forum took 25 hours to be able to land where he wanted when converting to a Jab, but another was right in 1 - 2 hours.

 

Indeed it would be a poor CFI that gave a ticket to someone who wasn't read but had completed the 5 hours and in most cases they simply just wouldn't hire the aircraft to the pilot if they felt that they weren't ready. I guess owner operators may be at a greater risk and I suspect more of these come to grief than in hired aircraft for this exact reason.

 

 

[johnprop]

I am building a high performance A/C and deliberatly chose to learn in a Jabiru LSA and I touch down at 70kts. The Jab is a slippery A/C and the A/C I am building is more slippery. Gaining my pilot's cert in a rag and tube would have been great and at a cheaper hourly rate and probably taken less time but to do so in my circumstances and in my view, would be false and potentially fatal economy.

 

Just because some can pilot a 747 does not necessarily mean they can fly an LSA with sucess.

 

The poiint made previously about pilot age and currency is a valid one.

 

My 2 cents worth

 

Clive

 

 

[trevorp]

Just because some can pilot a 747 does not necessarily mean they can fly an LSA with sucess.

Clive

Made me laugh, remembering what my instructor was telling me about a 747 pilot doing a conversion,on first landing started flaring the little jab 160 at 200ft agl. I asked how long to sign off, 8.5hrs. he reckons he's only had prob 2 or 3 that didnt need 5hrs, most 5 to 10 and some over for ga to raa in jab160.

cheers trevor...

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

I think that Tony made the right point here - this is competency based. Two friends of mine have converted in recent months. Both high time and very current B744 captains. One had not flown anything smaller for 20 years, the other regularly flies GA.

 

The "heavy only" guy nailed it first circuit, absolutely nailed the handling of the aircraft including a beautiful flare and landing - I was there. His issue was his tendency to then slap the nose wheel on so that he had tiller steering!

 

The other guy chose to convert in a tailwheel a/c just for the challenge. Each of them took their 5-6 hours. Each of them was a very aware pilot including knowing that the rudder was there to do something. But each of them had skills to build or habits to correct.

 

I think like all things this is about having a sensible minimum and then taking as long as it takes.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Ultralights]

GA= big heavy aircraft (by comparison) RAA= Light weight and no inertia! even though i am only a fresh instructor, i have already seen the biggest hurdle for a GA pilot is getting used to flying with low inertia, in everything from flaring way to high, to leveling off at altitude 100 ft or more below/above desired level.

 

even for myself, it took about 5hr to get the flare height right in the jabiru compared to the Archer, and when i do occasional flights in GA, have to remember to flare a lot earlier..