Check Lists

[farri]

I was thinking that getting her to 'call' the lists might both give her something to do and also distract her from noticing that there's not a lot under her feet! :) What do you think? Reckon it'd work?

I reckon,teach her too much and and you won`t be PIC much longer.

 

Seriously though, Provided that everything that needs to be checked and done is done,then as David has said,what ever works best for you is the way to go.

 

The most important thing is that you familiarise yourself completely with the AC so that you will know when something is not as it should be.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Thx1137]

My partner had enough problems flying commercial so I thought it was going to be tough getting her to fly with me. She only enjoys it when the scenery is green, the air is very smooth and when we saw some whales and dolphins a little while back. She reckons having a camera helped relax her too. Recently she had her first valium free flight! Now, after about 7 hours as a PAX she still doesn't really "like" it but she doesn't dislike it either.

 

I certainly wouldn't have her go through the checklist(s) with me though because in my mind it is part of being on control of the aircraft. I do not want to (or even seem like) share responsibility with my PAX and I know I would find it distracting and slower. As mentioned the important thing is that the checks are done so whatever works but I certainly would think twice if a reason for it is to keep her mind occupied!

 

 

[sfGnome]

Thanks for your thoughts. As always, they've given me plenty to ponder on!

 

 

[kaz3g]

How many do a power check after applying throttle for take-off? Especially on a short strip.Nev..

Agreed Nev... and how many check that their ASI is reading correctly as they are accellerating down the runway?

 

kaz

 

 

[Tackleberry]

Hows this for thought!

 

The RAAF use checklists all the time. Doesnt matter how long you have been flying or how qualified you are on type.

 

Take this as a point to remember. It is easier to start and set up military aircraft than most civilian so dont be discouraged using a checklist.

 

Personally I like to use one as a backup before I fly.

 

Checking while doing a walk around or while sitting in the cockpit and running through the checks doing a radio call.

 

You are not time wasting and you might just pick up on a missing check that you have bypassed for a while.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[facthunter]

There is the question of "doing it because you have been told you should", and often not even looking at ANYTHING. All you are doing is talking to yourself. Complete waste of time. The principle used to be. DO the required action. (this is done in the course of flying the plane), and CONFIRM it by calling the list.

 

Example. extending the landing gear.(where fitted of course). would you wait for the checklist to happen BEFORE dropping the gear? I certainly hope not, as you should do it at the time in the normal sequence of events, where in normal situations, you WOULD do it.. I mention NORMAL because it is significant. Normal implies a certain flow of actions in a logical and planned sequence. When thing get out of "normal" is when things go wrong even for experienced crews, and they can "stuff it up" Under pressure. This is when the CHECKlist becomes a second line of defense, to eliminate human error.. Don't ever JUST do it automatically. It is not a prompter in normal situations and shouldn't be regarded as some fall-back "how to fly the aeroplane" book . Nev

 

 

[sfGnome]

For instance...when it comes to checking 'carby heat'....does anyone pull the 'carby heat' ON as they are increasing the rev's to the recommended power setting for the 'carby ice' check??

cfi, could you expand on that a bit? I was taught to increase the revs and then apply heat and listen (or look) for the revs to drop. How does the check work if you're increasing the revs as you apply heat?

 

 

[Tackleberry]

I always do my carby ice check (count to ten) after mag checking. You are already at revs required and it is easier to see the required gauge movement.!!

 

 

[sfGnome]

Ah, dopey me! Gotcha now...

 

 

[dazza 38]

...or CONTROLS..'full and free'...when you move the stick left (for example) ..do you look left and expect the aileron to move...up/down??????????

I read a story, Yeh guys i read alot. Anyway there was a Lancaster that crashed after take off where the Ailerons where reconnected incorrectly.So what happen was when the pilot turned the yoke to the left, the a/c rolled right. Even though they knew the problem their instincts took over, they couldnt think outside the square.They crashed killing everyone on board.Even though it sounds simple, Ie- turning the yoke/wheel in the opposite direction, too where they wanted to go. They still got confused.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

....Even though it sounds simple, Ie- turning the yoke/wheel in the opposite direction, too where they wanted to go. They still got confused.

I can now relate to that Dazza. I went for my first flight in a 3-axis (Drifter) on Sunday and although I know that the controls are opposite to a weight shift, I still had difficulty in putting it into practice. The stick wasn't an issue, but even taxiing, every 50 metres or so, I'd put my foot on the wrong rudder pedal and exacerbate the zig zag. We weren't really meant to be taking evasive action while backtracking The fact that the Drifter is a tail dragger and quite twitchy on ground steer probably wasn't in my favour and it certainly wasn't as bad in the air, but the mind problem was still present.

 

I guess after a few hours it becomes ingrained, and I'm sure that if I wasn't a weight shift pilot, it may have been easier, but that automatic reaction keeps taking over and the feedback loop of observation and correction just isn't quite quick enough. We've covered this topic in discussing weight shift conversions from 3-axis previously, the opposite is also true.

 

P.S. I didn't do the takeoff or landing

 

 

[facthunter]

I think it will always be a potential problem in the instance where you do an "automatic" quick response. ( the instinctive reaction). Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

I do carby heat check, immediately after mag check, with the throttle not touched, then push in the carby heat control and expect to see about 10rpm increase. Works well for me.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Your right David, when it flew with John McBride at Caloundra in 1997, he had at the time around 4500 hours in 3 Axis (I cant imagine what he has now).Anyway he went for a flight in a trike. He didnt like it., I mean he enjoyed it but could come to grips with it in a hour.He told me his instincts told him as per 3 axis, pull a stick back you go up, opposite to trikes, peddles oposite etc.Although as you know there are guys here who fly both, BallPoint, Andy from Coffs just to name a couple.

 

 

[facthunter]

I've been flying 3-axis for about 54 years. About 9 years ago, I decided NOT to fly weightshift, because of the reversal of control response. IN an EMERGENCY you could revert to the OTHER. (or even just hesitate momentarily). I have had no problem with right seat/left seat and I don't care whether it is a LHDrive car but the trike is too different.

 

When I first started flying ( in a Chipmunk) my directional control was not as good as I felt it should be. I eventually put this down to the amount of time I had done on billycarts where the foot action is reversed. During periods where I have been instructing I have found that some pilot "idiosynchrasies" are due to previous activities. eg Throttle reversal, due to driving tractors, flaring very low ( Powered parachute) and the billycart phenomenon that I experienced myself. There would be others , I am sure. This is a decision that I have taken personally for safety reasons and to keep my reaction times "sharper". Others will make their own decisions. Nev